Roberto Martinez discussion

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

There's nothing actively wrong with Martinez being a poor defensive coach, so long as he reaches out and gets help with it

Brian Clough and Peter Taylor were decent managers on their own, but when they worked together they had outrageous success that they never matched when they worked by themselves

The problem isn't that Martinez is a poor defensive coach. The problem is that he's a poor defensive coach and he isn't doing anything about it. Get a defensive coach in, drop Howard and sign an experienced CB in the January window, and he'll be taking necessary steps.

That's really all I want, for him to actually do SOMETHING to try and fix this

 

[davek]

That is were your senior pros come in. And why Jags coming back - even though he isn't the biggest shouter - will help as will Baines. The best thing about it is that there is a conversation between players, coaches and the manager about the defending, as Barry revealed. The confidence of our young players is paramount while we sort the defensive side of our game at home. But I don't think it will be a problem. I'm amazed how strong mentally Galloway is and that his confidence didn't suffer after the City game. Not many youngsters wouldn't have buckled after the City game and the tough time Navas gave him in the first half. That experience has set him in good stead. The same with Stones who has had a rough time of late and is 'expected' to step up to the mark even though he is still learning his trade and it shows. He has had to deal with it. Working on the training ground will also help him to iron out some rawness in his defending and heading - attacking the ball and not wait for it.

Football tactics and how the game is played moves on. A manager needs to be observant of these trends. The high energy athleticism being shown in the premier league is one such point. It is like going back all those years when continental teams found it difficult to play against such aggressive English teams play - hence the winning of all those European cups by English sides. . And getting Peter Vint in to work on all aspects of performance including stamina and fitness will bring its rewards. Shows that Martinez is not stuck in his ways and is stubborn. But has responded to different developments.

I don't think Martinez asking them to curtail their attacking instincts will lead to a more negative approach. But I see your point. Deulofeu gets back more readily this time around that when he was here last time, but it hasn't been at the expense of his attacking side. I can see Barkley coming back more if and when needed to 'see out the game'. Or Martinez making a 'defensive' sub to see out the game. Something that will have been part of the conversation that is going on, I would assume.

Sunday's game should be a cracker. The Entertainers will delight the viewing public and maybe they will bombard Sky and BT to demand that we are on the TV more.

Cant add to that, so wont try. A comprehensive view of what's happening and needs to happen.

I would just say that at the moment it's hard to determine whether the past few weeks late collapses is down to a definite failure to balance the team between defence and attack, or whether it's a matter of the inexperience of the back four (for the most part of it) catching up with it...and the GK catastrophe does nothing to settle the issue either.

The thing that pisses me off (and must piss the players off) is the great emphasis placed on these frailties in defence and the celebration of our team's attacking prowess has receded into the background...for now at least. We all need to understand and acknowledge the weaknesses apparent, but accentuate the positives too. Too much gloom and doom for halfway through a season that's seen a massive step forward for this team.

 

[TheHumbleEgg]

'...some of the best football we've ever played'....etc, etc, etc

Except it's not though because it's ultimately worthless if it gains nowt.

And at the moment it gains, well, pretty near to nowt.

 

[TheHumbleEgg]

Cant add to that, so wont try. A comprehensive view of what's happening and needs to happen.

I would just say that at the moment it's hard to determine whether the past few weeks late collapses is down to a definite failure to balance the team between defence and attack, or whether it's a matter of the inexperience of the back four (for the most part of it) catching up with it...and the GK catastrophe does nothing to settle the issue either.

The thing that pisses me off (and must piss the players off) is A) the great emphasis placed on these frailties in defence and B) the celebration of our team's attacking prowess has receded into the background...for now at least. We all need to understand and acknowledge the weaknesses apparent, but accentuate the positives too. Too much gloom and doom for halfway through a season that's seen a massive step forward for this team.

A) Emphasis because that's what's costing us games/points/money in swear tins etc. Hope RM starts applying similar great emphasis on it soon mate TBH...

B) Because it's worthless Dave when we ship the way we have been.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

'...some of the best football we've ever played'....etc, etc, etc

Except it's not though because it's ultimately worthless if it gains nowt.

And at the moment it gains, well, pretty near to nowt.

The attacking football is absolutely stupendous and my hats off to everyone involved with it, including the manager

However, as good as the attacking has been, the defence has been equally poor

It's not beyond rescuing though, which is why I'm still "Martinez In", but I really need to see something in the coming months that shows Martinez is taking steps to improve things. Dropping Howard would be an excellent start

 

[hullefc]

Cant add to that, so wont try. A comprehensive view of what's happening and needs to happen.

I would just say that at the moment it's hard to determine whether the past few weeks late collapses is down to a definite failure to balance the team between defence and attack, or whether it's a matter of the inexperience of the back four (for the most part of it) catching up with it...and the GK catastrophe does nothing to settle the issue either.

The thing that pisses me off (and must piss the players off) is the great emphasis placed on these frailties in defence and the celebration of our team's attacking prowess has receded into the background...for now at least. We all need to understand and acknowledge the weaknesses apparent, but accentuate the positives too. Too much gloom and doom for halfway through a season that's seen a massive step forward for this team.

All part of the learning process by these young lads. They look annoyed. That suggests to me that they care and want to get it right. So will put in the necessary to get it right. The manager and coaching staff will need to step up to the mark. I'm convinced they will.

 

[TheHumbleEgg]

The attacking football is absolutely stupendous and my hats off to everyone involved with it, including the manager

However, as good as the attacking has been, the defence has been equally poor

It's not beyond rescuing though, which is why I'm still "Martinez In", but I really need to see something in the coming months that shows Martinez is taking steps to improve things. Dropping Howard would be an excellent start

....doesn't help that we play CITY til abaaaar the end of MARCH like does it.

 

[davek]

http://www.jacktoaking.com/

You won't like this Dave, most of the credit goes to Brenda

This lad also says 'Don't forget Kenny' (Jackett, before you start getting excited like in the RS thread)

Now, this is interesting. Are we saying the former managers should take credit for the work of the current incumbent?

You're having a laugh aren't you?Are you basing that off a 2 minute trailer?

FFS.

I have no desire to see that dvd, but I guarantee it'll acknowledge in full the job RM did in that club's return to the top flight.

...oh look, I was right:

They spend a pretty significant chunk of time talking about the appointment of Roberto Martinez as manager and his implementation of the Spanish style of play with lots of passing.

http://worldsoccertalk.com/2015/06/...tary-that-chronicles-swanseas-magical-flight/

It's pretty sad that you hate this manager so much you deny his achievements. Oh well. Entirely up to you, I suppose.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

....doesn't help that we play CITY til abaaaar the end of MARCH like does it.

If Robles enters good performances against them in the cup, we might finally see a certain Useless Starfish Tit put out to pasture. So every cloud

 

[davek]

A) Emphasis because that's what's costing us games/points/money in swear tins etc. Hope RM starts applying similar great emphasis on it soon mate TBH...

B) Because it's worthless Dave when we ship the way we have been.

How can it be 'worthless'...didn't you enjoy it?

*Flabbergasted*

 

[orly]

You're having a laugh aren't you?Are you basing that off a 2 minute trailer?

FFS.

I have no desire to see that dvd, but I guarantee it'll acknowledge in full the job RM did in that club's return to the top flight.

...oh look, I was right:


http://worldsoccertalk.com/2015/06/...tary-that-chronicles-swanseas-magical-flight/

It's pretty sad that you hate this manager so much you deny his achievements. Oh well. Entirely up to you, I suppose.

Hate the results and the failure, yes. No feelings to the man either way.

So you wont read or watch anything that doesn't agree with you? That's very balanced


lol

and to show how blinkered / selective you are;

One criticism I have of this film is that the rest of it feels very rushed. They spend a pretty significant chunk of time talking about the appointment of Roberto Martinez as manager and his implementation of the Spanish style of play with lots of passing. They also spend a bit of time talking about the move from Vetch Field to the Liberty Stadium. Very little is said about their promotions from the fourth and third divisions respectively and it is heavily implied that Brendan Rodgers succeeded Martinez after Martinez left for Wigan (he did not; Paulo Sousa did). While this does not take away from the overall message that the film is trying to convey, I found this bit of the film very difficult to comprehend, as I was never sure what period of time they were referring to.

That's the full quote. Amazingly, this is what you do, too - ignore the bits that don't suit you. How ironic that you picked the quote from this paragraph.

 

[TheHumbleEgg]

How can it be 'worthless'...didn't you enjoy it?

*Flabbergasted*

Because other teams are often scoring an equal amount of goals if not more goals against us = ultimately worthless.

So, if it continues Dave, and it may well do given A) his stubbornness & B) the run of games we've got then tell me, truthfully, what'll it be worth at the season end at, say, 14th/15th, having scored a shed load but conceded a bigger shed load?

And, yes, in answer mate, momentarily I enjoy it, momentarily it's exciting...then the reality kicks in in that since that little goal high I'm 'enjoying' we've conceded and, as per, we've slashed in our own soup again...having learnt nothing from the last time...nor the time before that...

It's weird, you chastise those who mention his WIGAN years and his, well, distinct lack of current savvy, yet at the same time you'll ping back to his arrival and the good stuff that was about then. But it's about now isn't it.

And - totally commend your faith in him and his ability BTW, it is unshifting as a mountain really, equal also in the amount of divets about it too - but I simply don't have that faith in his ability as he seems utterly unable to learn from his mistakes. As much as I dizzzzzlike quoting interviews but the GUARDIAN article of a year ago...blimey. He's STILL mulling over the same decisions now as he was mulling over then. This isn't an example of pro-active, forward thinking & (dare I say) innovative management Dave, this sometimes feels like a guy who's now SO out of his depth that he's concentrating on the stuff he's good at (attacking) in the desperate hope that it'll somehow cancel out and eventually (via luck & spunked results) cancel out the stuff that he's bad at (defending).

And I fear it won't.

That said, all the bloody best old bean...

 

[Dithering Dougie]

 

[vagant59]

Happy new year Lads + Lassie's. I think that we will all agree that half our team is on fire and the other half is all at sea. Hopefully a small change in personnel and a more balanced approach will have us climbing the table. Its not to late to rescue something from this season but it has to start now. P.S. ANYBODY WHO DOES NOT AGREE IS A PLOTTER

 

[Aar_the_Toffees]

Happy New Years lads!! Here's to Everton breaking the trophy drought and springing back up the table to where we belong- as the best there is. Here's to hoping the School of Science reopens once more and for a long time. Most importantly, here's to hoping that Everton make us all proud to be a Blue.

Up the Toffees, Come on You Blues!!