Roberto Martinez discussion

[COYB]

i like him ..

i just can't make myself watch his interviews anymore
don't know what it is all that phenomenol stuff however its spelt.

and also the defense problems although last game
was very good.. if he can find a balance between attacking and defense
maybe go to tough games like we did at city and have a bit of a fight mentality

than he would be better in my opinion.. and stop with that phenomenol stuff yeah

 

[mkrudden]

So if we do lose Lukaku and Stones, hypothetically, would you replace with proven? As appose inexperienced?


Just wondering how long this is going to be his get out of jail free card.


I think it's worth just working with my argument rather that just dismissing it, simply because as suggested by yourself if this squad is simply suffering from inexperience, then when it all click I'll be right on board, because it all clicking means we will win more that 30% of the time.


But I'd suggest you just ignore me, and then when it all clicks you can say 'I told you so'

I say ignore, as no poster will change my stance, only results will. I think that's fair.

I do enjoy the debate with you Ian, genuinely, and whilst results should have been better, it's fairly obvious that this team is immature.

You've got John Stones going to ground twice in a few weeks and fortunate both times not to concede a penalty.

You've got Lukaku doing that thing where he points at where everyone else should be.

You've got Deulofeu getting into brilliant positions and trying to re-define the laws of physics in the way he connects with the ball.

I could go on and on.

Throw in immature game management. See Bournemouth, Stoke.

I blame Martinez for not doing more on set pieces. Whilst I love possession football, it's clear we were being targeted. He needed to address that and seemingly has.

The results aren't good enough. But he can't create 300 games of experience for each of these kids. What he can do is work with them and introduce a new element to their games piece by piece.

They are nowhere near there yet. And we may lose some of them along the way.

Its clear to me that he is producing a fearless and fearsome side who could win us things.

If he had had 200million and Lukaku, Barkley, Stones, Besic, Deulofeu were 28 then I'd be right with you. And I mean that.

But they aren't and we have to take the rough with the smooth. They are an exciting, naive side who are still 12/24 months away from being consistent.

And that's the same for any 17-24 year old player. We just so happen to have a load of them in the match 18 every week!

 

[ianefc]

I do enjoy the debate with you Ian, genuinely, and whilst results should have been better, it's fairly obvious that this team is immature.

You've got John Stones going to ground twice in a few weeks and fortunate both times not to concede a penalty.

You've got Lukaku doing that thing where he points at where everyone else should be.

You've got Deulofeu getting into brilliant positions and trying to re-define the laws of physics in the way he connects with the ball.

I could go on and on.

Throw in immature game management. See Bournemouth, Stoke.

I blame Martinez for not doing more on set pieces. Whilst I love possession football, it's clear we were being targeted. He needed to address that and seemingly has.

The results aren't good enough. But he can't create 300 games of experience for each of these kids. What he can do is work with them and introduce a new element to their games piece by piece.

They are nowhere near there yet. And we may lose some of them along the way.

Its clear to me that he is producing a fearless and fearsome side who could win us things.

If he had had 200million and Lukaku, Barkley, Stones, Besic, Deulofeu were 28 then I'd be right with you. And I mean that.

But they aren't and we have to take the rough with the smooth. They are an exciting, naive side who are still 12/24 months away from being consistent.

And that's the same for any 17-24 year old player. We just so happen to have a load of them in the match 18 every week!

Is their no part of you that worries we aren't going to see the fruits of his labour due to our woeful form? I mean I'm now coming to the point where I'd be amazed if Lukaku and Stones were here next season. Even Martinez was quoted as say that 'Cups won't be enough to keep the stars, top 4 could'

 

[davek]

I do enjoy the debate with you Ian, genuinely, and whilst results should have been better, it's fairly obvious that this team is immature.

You've got John Stones going to ground twice in a few weeks and fortunate both times not to concede a penalty.

You've got Lukaku doing that thing where he points at where everyone else should be.

You've got Deulofeu getting into brilliant positions and trying to re-define the laws of physics in the way he connects with the ball.

I could go on and on.

Throw in immature game management. See Bournemouth, Stoke.

I blame Martinez for not doing more on set pieces. Whilst I love possession football, it's clear we were being targeted. He needed to address that and seemingly has.

The results aren't good enough. But he can't create 300 games of experience for each of these kids. What he can do is work with them and introduce a new element to their games piece by piece.

They are nowhere near there yet. And we may lose some of them along the way.

Its clear to me that he is producing a fearless and fearsome side who could win us things.

If he had had 200million and Lukaku, Barkley, Stones, Besic, Deulofeu were 28 then I'd be right with you. And I mean that.

But they aren't and we have to take the rough with the smooth. They are an exciting, naive side who are still 12/24 months away from being consistent.

And that's the same for any 17-24 year old player. We just so happen to have a load of them in the match 18 every week!

Spot on. A work in progress, for sure, But someone would have to be pretty clueless not to see the contours of what's being built here by this manager.

 

[ianefc]

I do enjoy the debate with you Ian, genuinely, and whilst results should have been better, it's fairly obvious that this team is immature.

You've got John Stones going to ground twice in a few weeks and fortunate both times not to concede a penalty.

You've got Lukaku doing that thing where he points at where everyone else should be.

You've got Deulofeu getting into brilliant positions and trying to re-define the laws of physics in the way he connects with the ball.

I could go on and on.

Throw in immature game management. See Bournemouth, Stoke.

I blame Martinez for not doing more on set pieces. Whilst I love possession football, it's clear we were being targeted. He needed to address that and seemingly has.

The results aren't good enough. But he can't create 300 games of experience for each of these kids. What he can do is work with them and introduce a new element to their games piece by piece.

They are nowhere near there yet. And we may lose some of them along the way.

Its clear to me that he is producing a fearless and fearsome side who could win us things.

If he had had 200million and Lukaku, Barkley, Stones, Besic, Deulofeu were 28 then I'd be right with you. And I mean that.

But they aren't and we have to take the rough with the smooth. They are an exciting, naive side who are still 12/24 months away from being consistent.

And that's the same for any 17-24 year old player. We just so happen to have a load of them in the match 18 every week!

Fair play as well for acknowledging the form. Most don't have the bottle for that sort of realism.

 

[Titus Bramble]

Didn't Arsenal beat them 2-0 last season at the Etihad. We also were the first opposition team to fail to register at the Etihad in the league for 5 1/2 months.

My 'fume' was never about this one match, it was more to do with the fact it was the match that meant we had dropped 100 points + before picking up 75 when you get 3 points for the win. I think it was a fair landmark to point out.


I have never noticed you before but this is really odd behaviour. Tagging in people for support, Dave is more than capable of coming up with his own opinions I very much doubt he needs your influence to compile them, much like Gru never relied on any one Minion, just as long as they were there as a collective when needed, to be his 'LikeMonkeys'


That's you dealt with now go and shine Dave's shoes and prep his supper.

It's best not to get in a debate with him mate, you'll end up going mental and smash your face on the desk

 

[bicycleheader]

I love GOT

 

[ianefc]

It's best not to get in a debate with him mate, you'll end up going mental and smash your face on the desk

Who is he? He just popped up on Wednesday tagging Chico n Dave in every post. Odd. I chat loads of crap, but he's on another level.

 

[Prevenger17]

I mean I'm now coming to the point where I'd be amazed if Lukaku and Stones were here next season.

Wasn't it always going to be the case though? Stones was 100% leaving anyway, Lukaku 90%.

 

[Prevenger17]

Who is he? He just popped up on Wednesday tagging Chico n Dave in every post. Odd. I chat loads of crap, but he's on another level.

Wait, are you genuinely only discovering Bizzaro now?

 

[bicycleheader]

I'll try to reply paragraph at a time.

I'm not now nor have I ever been to arsed about what people on here think of my posts, I try to stick to the facts as much as I can and as I've consistently said if Martinez starts winning my entire stance completely and emphatically collapses in on itself.

The players may very well be here for the manager, but last year the only serious interest we had for one of our 'stars' resulted in a transfer request to add to that I read the other day on here that Stones is on 20k per week, now this is pure speculation, but I don't think it's out of the realms of possibility that he's made it clear he won't be signing a new contract due to the mixed messages it would send (if as presumed he want out) I also disagree that half the squad goes if Martinez goes, unless you're suggested that Moyes players weren't playing for him as apart from Felliani no one of note jumped ship, when he left.

He and the board did brilliantly to hold off bids from other clubs over the past 3 summers, no doubt about it. But will that continue? We can only speculate either way. Baines never kicked up a fuss and Stones did, although it suits some arguments on the latter to blame the agent. I really don't think you read as many of my post as you're suggesting (In your progress report) if you think that I haven't on numerous occasions stated that this is, without a doubt, the BEST squad of my Everton supporting life time, thanks to Martinez. That said, it is also a cause of my frustration as with the exception of Deulofeu and Mori this squad has performed way way under par for 18 months (18 wins in 59) and if he can't do it with this squad what makes you think he'll do it with the next? In fact his entire premier league career has shown the clubs he's been in charge of have had a drop down in final league position season on season, that's a fact and a worrying trend he needs to buck, QuickTime.

I did find it interesting that you only commented on Stones leaving and ignored the more important one of the two, in Lukaku, as he's the guy who has got a squad being the 11th most creative to become the 3rd most productive, good swerve by yourself, I believe this is the real worry, even with unlimited money I don't think we could replace him. He's the leagues top scorer playing for the 11th placed club after 21 games, to quote 'Bobby' (sort of) that's uniquely phenomenal.

Aaahh the Football Manager paragraph. First off it's a fair point to say that Stones won't be as hard to replace, but it will still be a tough ask.....I'd be pleasantly surprised if we got £50m for him, and yes that would aid us in getting other targets, it still does not answer why we have been performing the way we have over the past 18 months with essentially with the same squad, 75 points from last 177 avaliable. Very few posters are screaming for the manager to be sacked and absolutely no one expects it to happen either. Just a little acknowledgement that all is not perfect and no matter what your thoughts on our progression, surely you expected better this time around after 21 games? If I had a delorian and had used it to tell you at the start of the season we'd be on 28 points after 21 games, I can only assume that is if been met with the reaction 'typical Ian negative......' Now it's happened, I have to except it good enough?

Finally when trying to slam me into one extreme end of the spectrum on this issue try and play it a touch fairer, I have complemented Martinez on some of the things he does and if he gets the results he will 100% get my support as I'm not stubborn, I firmly believe some would see us scrapping relegation before they would admit to being wrong about him.

One final thing, please leave out the 'Bobby' stuff it flares my Cringe Gland. It's Martinez.

Bobbys boss

 

[boris]

I'll try to reply paragraph at a time.

I'm not now nor have I ever been to arsed about what people on here think of my posts, I try to stick to the facts as much as I can and as I've consistently said if Martinez starts winning my entire stance completely and emphatically collapses in on itself.

The players may very well be here for the manager, but last year the only serious interest we had for one of our 'stars' resulted in a transfer request to add to that I read the other day on here that Stones is on 20k per week, now this is pure speculation, but I don't think it's out of the realms of possibility that he's made it clear he won't be signing a new contract due to the mixed messages it would send (if as presumed he want out) I also disagree that half the squad goes if Martinez goes, unless you're suggested that Moyes players weren't playing for him as apart from Felliani no one of note jumped ship, when he left.

He and the board did brilliantly to hold off bids from other clubs over the past 3 summers, no doubt about it. But will that continue? We can only speculate either way. Baines never kicked up a fuss and Stones did, although it suits some arguments on the latter to blame the agent. I really don't think you read as many of my post as you're suggesting (In your progress report) if you think that I haven't on numerous occasions stated that this is, without a doubt, the BEST squad of my Everton supporting life time, thanks to Martinez. That said, it is also a cause of my frustration as with the exception of Deulofeu and Mori this squad has performed way way under par for 18 months (18 wins in 59) and if he can't do it with this squad what makes you think he'll do it with the next? In fact his entire premier league career has shown the clubs he's been in charge of have had a drop down in final league position season on season, that's a fact and a worrying trend he needs to buck, QuickTime.

I did find it interesting that you only commented on Stones leaving and ignored the more important one of the two, in Lukaku, as he's the guy who has got a squad being the 11th most creative to become the 3rd most productive, good swerve by yourself, I believe this is the real worry, even with unlimited money I don't think we could replace him. He's the leagues top scorer playing for the 11th placed club after 21 games, to quote 'Bobby' (sort of) that's uniquely phenomenal.

Aaahh the Football Manager paragraph. First off it's a fair point to say that Stones won't be as hard to replace, but it will still be a tough ask.....I'd be pleasantly surprised if we got £50m for him, and yes that would aid us in getting other targets, it still does not answer why we have been performing the way we have over the past 18 months with essentially with the same squad, 75 points from last 177 avaliable. Very few posters are screaming for the manager to be sacked and absolutely no one expects it to happen either. Just a little acknowledgement that all is not perfect and no matter what your thoughts on our progression, surely you expected better this time around after 21 games? If I had a delorian and had used it to tell you at the start of the season we'd be on 28 points after 21 games, I can only assume that is if been met with the reaction 'typical Ian negative......' Now it's happened, I have to except it good enough?

Finally when trying to slam me into one extreme end of the spectrum on this issue try and play it a touch fairer, I have complemented Martinez on some of the things he does and if he gets the results he will 100% get my support as I'm not stubborn, I firmly believe some would see us scrapping relegation before they would admit to being wrong about him.

One final thing, please leave out the 'Bobby' stuff it flares my Cringe Gland. It's Martinez.

I'm trying to stop the long posts but it's hard. I never swerved Lukaku leaving, I didn't mention it cause I don't think any of our other top players are going anywhere. Bobby will talk them all in to staying.

Half our dressing room never walked out when Moyes left because virtually all of those he left they won't play any higher than Everton and the ones who will, like Stones and Barkley, couldn't get in Moyeseys team. Right now it's full of potentiol superstars who'll have a lot of clubs after them.

You don't judge a managers at this stage on results unless there dangerously bad, it's only 1 aspect of the job when they're in the building stage. Martinez is doing an outstanding job in every area now bar the league positions although there's still half a season to go. Results should be better, which everyone admits, but most can clearly see the green shoots are there and this team is very close to taking a huge step forward, it's only a matter of when not if.

It changes all so quickly as Evertonians should only be too aware from when we last had a squad as good as this. Leicester were in the relegation zone this time last year and Chelsea were already about to be crowned champions, it can and will change that fast.

In the meantime let's see if Bobby, who's a proven winner, can pick us up a pot for the first time in over 20 years.

 

[vagant59]

I do enjoy the debate with you Ian, genuinely, and whilst results should have been better, it's fairly obvious that this team is immature.

You've got John Stones going to ground twice in a few weeks and fortunate both times not to concede a penalty.

You've got Lukaku doing that thing where he points at where everyone else should be.

You've got Deulofeu getting into brilliant positions and trying to re-define the laws of physics in the way he connects with the ball.

I could go on and on.

Throw in immature game management. See Bournemouth, Stoke.

I blame Martinez for not doing more on set pieces. Whilst I love possession football, it's clear we were being targeted. He needed to address that and seemingly has.

The results aren't good enough. But he can't create 300 games of experience for each of these kids. What he can do is work with them and introduce a new element to their games piece by piece.

They are nowhere near there yet. And we may lose some of them along the way.

Its clear to me that he is producing a fearless and fearsome side who could win us things.

If he had had 200million and Lukaku, Barkley, Stones, Besic, Deulofeu were 28 then I'd be right with you. And I mean that.

But they aren't and we have to take the rough with the smooth. They are an exciting, naive side who are still 12/24 months away from being consistent.

And that's the same for any 17-24 year old player. We just so happen to have a load of them in the match 18 every week!

Hooray, somebody who can see it from both sides. You have posted exactly what my thoughts are, however there have been occasions when Roberto could of had a massive influence on the outcome of games and he has failed to act " Stoke, Bournemouth " If he has learnt from these games, then the future looks bright

 

[ianefc]

Wasn't it always going to be the case though? Stones was 100% leaving anyway, Lukaku 90%.

Do you know what, by me agreeing with this, it sorts of means my argument about being 11th and the points gained and matches not won are irrelevant as if we were higher, you're suggesting (and I agree) theirs a good chance they'd be off any how.

I just really want to put up a fight. You know? I mean 1 win in 8, no wins v teams in the top half of the league, not beaten a team outside of the bottom 3 since WBA, I could go on, all this with this talented squad, if a little inexperienced (@mkrudden ).

 

[bicycleheader]

Who is he? He just popped up on Wednesday tagging Chico n Dave in every post. Odd. I chat loads of crap, but he's on another level.

Hes just some Villa fan that comes on every now and then.

dont mind him