Roberto Martinez discussion

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Some of those are valid yes.

I would say that pushing too many players forward when leading 2-0 played a part in us not winning, so we could learn to not do that. I would say not closing people down quickly enough led to a deflected goal so we could work on that. I would say that our heads dropped badly after their first goal and the second looked a matter of time straight away so we could try to stop that happening in future. We could work on the communication between goalkeeper and defence as that appears to be a recurring problem, as does the communication between centre halves. We could reiterate the importance of keeping hold of the ball and not being more bothered about individual glory when we seemingly have three points in the bag. We could work on attacking aerial balls as that has cost us a number of goals this season.

Or we could stick our fingers in our ears going 'la la la offside la la extra 55 seconds la la nothing to see here'.

As i said, I see no harm in looking at what went wrong and being objective. I think in some games this year we've played very well and deserved more than we got, in others I think we've probably been a bit lucky to get away with points. Some people will just look and say win = good performance, clean sheet = defended well and vice versa. That's fine, just not my cup of tea.
Nice to know there are other realists on here
 

Lucky that the linesman got it right? Don't understand that point at all sorry. Had the flag gone up we would be heralding a performance which proved we are improving in confidence, going to away grounds and getting really good results. Chelsea have some brilliant players and we, just like every team in the league have shown nothing to suggest we should be going to Stamford Bridge and not concede. They have fabulous offensive players, therefore going there we can reasonably expect to have to score 2 or 3 to win the game. We conceded a poor one, then a deflected goal. We then get another and but for a horrendous decision that would have been enough.

3-2 away at Chelsea is a fantastic result.

And on the point regarding the inexperience in the side. It isn't exclusively games which makes a player "mature", it's additionally age and experience of this league.

Stones, Deulofeu, Besic, Funes Mori, Lukaku, they are all early 20s/novices in this league (FM). You can't just start thinking, reacting, playing like a 28 year old just because you've played 70 games for Barcelona B, for example.

Where is John Stones for that first goal and why, when the ball is played, is he not busting a gut to get back in case a rusty Jags misjudges the flight of the ball? Why is Deulofeu trying to beat a man on 97minutes50seconds instead of doing what others did against City in the LC and keep possession? Why are Funes Mori, Besic and Lukaku jumping into the crowd a matter of weeks after we did the same thing vs Bournemouth, costing us 2 points?

They have got a lot of growing up to do.

Take all that naivity into consideration and we STILL should have won the game!

What we get in return for patience whilst this lot grow up, improve, gain experience, is the pleasure in watching some of the finest talent in the league play with vibrancy, flair and fearlessness.

I'm happy with our end of the deal.
A lot of those points back up what i'm saying.

Yes we have some inexperience, but we have a lot of experience too, so why aren't the experienced players working with the inexperienced ones to ensure these things don't happen? If Stones's mistake can be put down to inexperience then why wasn't Jagielka or Howard talking to him to remind him? Why wasn't one of the coaching staff shouting instructions? Why doesn't the manager say ' Stones has a habit of drifting off due to his inexperience so i'll tell Oviedo not to venture forward now that we're 2-0 up just in case he needs to cover?

Seven of the eleven on the pitch at the end have over 100 games in the Premier League. Not Barcelona B, the Premier League. Age is irrelevant in this, it really is. If you've played 100 games at the top level you should really have sufficient experience to know what you're doing. Players/people don't suddenly morph into something else because their age ticks over to another number, they get more mature because they have more responsibility and experience of things. If you compare a bloke with a wife, a mortgage, a kid and a full time job at 20 to a 25 year old who lives with his parents and has been on a couple of gap years, you'll probably find the former is more mature. Lionel Messi won the Ballon D'or at 22, and we're saying players of the same age can't even be expected to see out a game for 7 minutes.

I'm not saying we'd have been lucky because the linesman got the decison right as such, i'm saying we'd be lucky that the player was offside. It wasn't a perfectly executed offside trap , he'd just drifted offside. The centre halves weren't going mad because they had no idea if he was off or not. We'd allowed ourselves to be penned back, and failed to clear our lines on numerous occasions. Terry wasn't quite as far offside as some people are suggesting and theres a possibility he could have scored if he'd been on. And this was after already letting Chelsea off the hook earlier in the game. I've said before, we were robbed by the official, and in a sense we were unlucky, but to just put it down to luck and ignore our own failings is pointless.
 
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A lot of those points back up what i'm saying.

Yes we have some inexperience, but we have a lot of experience too, so why aren't the experienced players working with the inexperienced ones to ensure these things don't happen? If Stones's mistake can be put down to inexperience then why wasn't Jagielka or Howard talking to him to remind him? Why wasn't one of the coaching staff shouting instructions? Why doesn't the manager say ' Stones has a habit of drifting off due to his inexperience so i'll tell Oviedo not to venture forward now that we're 2-0 up just in case he needs to cover?

Seven of the eleven on the pitch at the end have over 100 games in the Premier League. Not Barcelona B, the Premier League. Age is irrelevant in this, it really is. If you've played 100 games at the top level you should really have sufficient experience to know what you're doing. Players/people don't suddenly morph into something else because their age ticks over to another number, they get more mature because they have more responsibility and experience of things. If you compare a bloke with a wife, a mortgage, a kid and a full time job at 20 to a 25 year old who lives with his parents and has been on a couple of gap years, you'll probably find the former is more mature. Lionel Messi won the Ballon D'or at 22, and we're saying players of the same age can't even be expected to see out a game for 7 minutes.

I'm not saying we'd have been lucky because the linesman got the decison right as such, i'm saying we'd be lucky that the player was offside. It wasn't a perfectly executed offside trap , he'd just drifted offside. The centre halves weren't going mad because they had no idea if he was off or not. We'd allowed ourselves to be penned back, and failed to clear our lines on numerous occasions. Terry wasn't quite as far offside as some people are suggesting and theres a possibility he could have scored if he'd been on. And this was after already letting Chelsea off the hook earlier in the game. I've said before, we were robbed by the official, and in a sense we were unlucky, but to just put it down to luck and ignore our own failings is pointless.

Just generally speaking, in any walk of life, do you expect a 22 year old to react the same way as someone who is 28?

Enjoying the debate though mate, btw.
 


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