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Roberto Martinez discussion

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tsubaki said:
We don't have a director of football, and my criticism of him is mainly because of the goalkeeper situation so I don't get how you think that counted in his favour.
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No we don't of course, but the point is that it is hardly an endorsement of a manager if this is an attribute that directors of football/proactive chairmen do.
If you re read your post - The very fact that he has assembled a squad of this quality counts in his favour, as does the fact that 80-90% of our problems stem from the goalkeeper and his loyalty to him. Do you not see my point?
 
toffeejack said:
why are you guys fuming at martinez about today? apart from picking howard of course. He picked the two wingers like they all wanted, 2 major players got injured whilst others aren't fit enough.

he didn't instruct stones to hold onto the ball too long and he didn't instruct to mess around like a fanny. he didn't instruct nobody to get on the end of about 5 deula crosses. I understand the fume at the position and all, but the players have to take responsibility as well - the team he put out were vastly superior yet didn't do the job.

he seemed to set us up with a bit more defence minded, especially to start, letting swansea have the ball and then the players cocked it all up.

there's so many things to moan at the moment, let's be honest. i don't think changing the manager would have as big of an effect as some do.
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It's not just about today, it's about our consistently awful form over the past 18 months.
 
Last week it was Martinez is under achieving with this squad. What he under-achieving today? Considering that Stones was poor, as was Lukaku. Barkley flitted on and out the game as did Deulofeu in the first half. Pienaar was on song today as was Cleverley. But are they classed as part of the 'under achieving squad'?
 

People begging for Mirallas and Deulofeu... No balance and open at the back, that is why no two wingers.

Anyway, lost my patience with Martinez now. I'm not for changing in the season and im very much 'pro time', but he, and the board have made me feel very disconnected with this club.
 
toffeejack said:
why are you guys fuming at martinez about today? apart from picking howard of course. He picked the two wingers like they all wanted, 2 major players got injured whilst others aren't fit enough.

he didn't instruct stones to hold onto the ball too long and he didn't instruct to mess around like a fanny. he didn't instruct nobody to get on the end of about 5 deula crosses. I understand the fume at the position and all, but the players have to take responsibility as well - the team he put out were vastly superior yet didn't do the job.

he seemed to set us up with a bit more defence minded, especially to start, letting swansea have the ball and then the players cocked it all up.

there's so many things to moan at the moment, let's be honest. i don't think changing the manager would have as big of an effect as some do.
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Not necessarily a defensive setup to me. We simply didn't press the ball at all until it was 45 yards out. Not sure who's to blame for that but either he simply doesn't know how he wants to set up, the players aren't executing, or we played to not be tired for Wednesday. If we don't win the tie this week then I will have very serious doubts about his ability.
 
toffeejack said:
why are you guys fuming at martinez about today? apart from picking howard of course. He picked the two wingers like they all wanted, 2 major players got injured whilst others aren't fit enough.

he didn't instruct stones to hold onto the ball too long and he didn't instruct to mess around like a fanny. he didn't instruct nobody to get on the end of about 5 deula crosses. I understand the fume at the position and all, but the players have to take responsibility as well - the team he put out were vastly superior yet didn't do the job.

he seemed to set us up with a bit more defence minded, especially to start, letting swansea have the ball and then the players cocked it all up.

there's so many things to moan at the moment, let's be honest. i don't think changing the manager would have as big of an effect as some do.
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Let's be honest, there are lots of worrying patterns
 
hullefc said:
Last week it was Martinez is under achieving with this squad. What he under-achieving today? Considering that Stones was poor, as was Lukaku. Barkley flitted on and out the game as did Deulofeu in the first half. Pienaar was on song today as was Cleverley. But are they classed as the 'under achieving squad'?
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Wouldn't say anyone was on-song today mate, Pienaar and Cleverly looked good as part of a bad bunch.
 
Shagster said:
No we don't of course, but the point is that it is hardly an endorsement of a manager if this is an attribute that directors of football/proactive chairmen do.
If you re read your post - The very fact that he has assembled a squad of this quality counts in his favour, as does the fact that 80-90% of our problems stem from the goalkeeper and his loyalty to him. Do you not see my point?
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Not really, no. Lukaku, Deulofeu, Besic, Funes Mori and McCarthy are his players; you can't bemoan how much we are underachieving whilst not also giving him credit for bringing them here, and good player recruitment has always been a sign of a decent manager - especially in this country where there isn't any real history of successful directors of football or "proactive chairmen".

My point is that almost all of our problems stem from either the goalkeeper or the goalkeeper combined with a defence that gives the very strong impression that they do not have confidence in him. It is a massive problem, and its one that Martinez has refused to deal with on at least two occasions, but it is something that is fixable - either with Robles or with bringing someone else in. If he gets the opportunity to deal with that situation again (ie: if Robles plays a blinder in midweek) then he has to make the right call, or he really should be got rid of.
 

andy4efc said:
Wouldn't say anyone was on-song today mate, Pienaar and Cleverly looked good as part of a bad bunch.
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Pienaar came on and opened the play up. Cleverley was very tidy in what he did and again opened the play up. Deulofeu was nowhere to be seen the first half but the second, put in 3 crosses that should have had someone on the end of.

Like I said, last week it was Martinez is not achieving with this squad. Can the same be said today?
 
In 7 seasons of premier league management his sides have conceded 398 goals which is 56 goals against a season on average, so on average in order for a martinez team to win a game they have to be scoring atleast 2/3 goals a game to get a win.

If that doesn't speak volumes for his defensive issues i don't know what will.

That would also be far higher if it wasn't for his first season with us of 39 goals in 38 games which coincidentally was 1 goal less than the previous 2 seasons with moyes in charge of 40 goals conceded in both seasons which goes to show that 1st season was a moyes based defensive system.

Call it quits, pay the compensation and get rid, we can't be going into games needing to score 2/3 goals to win a game, i miss 1-0 wins they were dull but this is a points business, if you aint getting the points your out of the job no matter how attractive the football is (which lets be honest is passing around the back 4 and stones doing a cruyff turn or feint near our box classed as attractive) We had a good season but aint done anything since then once again like last year a cup competition is saving him his job atm, was the same with europe as it is with the cup.
 

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