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Roberto Martinez discussion

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Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

How many times do we have to collapse in the closing stages of a game and lose from a winning position before everyone realises it's not just the mentality of the players. (Note this does not apply to plotters)
 
KevMirallas said:
He was doing so well too. For 75 minutes, everything he had done was perfect.

Starting lineup, excellent. Tinkerings to get to half-time after the red card was good. Half-time sub was bang on. Should have been 3 or 4 up and coasting to what would have been an impressive win.

I don't even really want to hammer him too much for the sub, innefectual as it turned out being. But the fact that this is the most mentally fragile Everton team I can remember seeing has to be on him to a large extent. There is no belief in this team, no fortitude. Which is ever so frustrating because there is simply crazy amounts of talent - both of the goals today were classy as hell, and the whole performance was perfect until the first little hurdle, at which point everyone's heads went.

Of course, lots of that is down to on field leadership too. But a manager simply needs to be able inspire a mentally sufficient performance from his players. I don't think today was a tactical failing, but it was yet another massive failure of belief. If the players don't really believe, and the manager can't change that, then we're in a lengthy holding pattern here.
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Today's debacle was first and foremost due to tactics. The players heads were up. They were playing good football. We were two up. They've brought on Andy Carroll, we know they're going to fire crosses into the box. All we have to do is close out the win, it's not rocket science, get bodies behind the ball, maybe bring on Barry for Barkley. What manager in his right mind brings on a second striker when we're down to 10 men and defending a lead ? If some heads did go maybe the lack of leadership from the bench played a part in that.
 
detroiturk15 said:
Are people that think we can attract a Mourinho or Simeone serious?
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Darth Toffeeman said:
Yes.
Everton will be a huge pull with new investment coming in.
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Not only is the money a pull, the fact we are a Premier league team helps too.

Mourinho was sacked recently, his stock is down and he needs to re-prove himself. I can't imagine a massive club will be knocking his door down at the moment.
 
Were Everton to make the decision to change manager, some of those currently available...
Moyes - no, been there done that ?
Rodgers - surely nobody would seriously entertain this clown ?
Benitez - doubt he would entertain it ?
Mourinho - once said he could manage Everton, flaky character these days, but the initial 1-2 years could be fun ?
Pellegrini - well travelled, experienced, not a loose cannon... worth a shout ?
 

Darth Toffeeman said:
Yes.
Everton will be a huge pull with new investment coming in.
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Gotta agree, aim high and approach the best. If we now have a rich owner looking to make us great again it's an inviting project for any manager. Total control, a very strong squad with some of the best young talent in Europe to start with and a heathy transfer budget. Imagine what a mourinho could do with us. You bring in a manager like that now and players like Rom and Stones will stick around too. It's unrealistic maybe but I us to be the best and to be the best you need the best managers (apologies I used the word best a lot there but didn't want to say phenomenal)
To be fair if take any manager over Roberto now
 
BlockHead said:
Were Everton to make the decision to change manager, some of those currently available...
Moyes - no, been there done that ?
Rodgers - surely nobody would seriously entertain this clown ?
Benitez - doubt he would entertain it ?
Mourinho - once said he could manage Everton, flaky character these days, but the initial 1-2 years could be fun ?
Pellegrini - well travelled, experienced, not a loose cannon... worth a shout ?
Click to expand...
No
 
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BlockHead said:
Were Everton to make the decision to change manager, some of those currently available...
Moyes - no, been there done that ?
Rodgers - surely nobody would seriously entertain this clown ?
Benitez - doubt he would entertain it ?
Mourinho - once said he could manage Everton, flaky character these days, but the initial 1-2 years could be fun ?
Pellegrini - well travelled, experienced, not a loose cannon... worth a shout ?
Click to expand...

Aim with new investment is to make sure the money is spent by a guy who can attract top talent to the club.

Strangely, Martinez does have that pull with younger players, but we're in a different league financially now and we can pay top wages if need be you'd assume, so yeah, you could look at Mourinho and Pellegrini seriously in the summer. Maybe. Just depends how it plays out, but if you offer great wages, a massive war chest and the chance to make history at a club like ours, I'd imagine some very decent managers would be tempted at this point.

So in short, we don't have to have the argument about who would replace Martinez anymore. Whoever it would be, it'd be someone of decent calibre now, as we have the muscle to attract them.

It's time we upgrade from the Spanish version of Mark Hughes to a proper manager.
 
SpurtingLesbian said:
Going down to 10 men killed us today. It took away all our options as we tired in the second half.
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Exactly. Not saying Martinez didn't make mistakes today but we seem to be ignoring the fact that 11 v 10 for an hour is tough and teams do usually lose. Especially against teams that are flying. And I really don't think Martinez had missed how much work Lennon and Rom were doing so it's totally possible they were being protected for the quarter finals which to my mind is a bigger game.
 
thebluenosebolt said:
8th would be great. We won't get 8th and frankly we don't deserve it. We aren't even deserved of top ten at present. There are a few of you on here who by hook or by crook are going to defend martinez whatever the results. I would actually admire your spirit if it had merit. He has to go next season for me. Hopefully the new investor will be more swayed by results than after match speeches.
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I think if we win our game in hand we are about 8th arent we?
 
tadpole said:
Today's debacle was first and foremost due to tactics. The players heads were up. They were playing good football. We were two up. They've brought on Andy Carroll, we know they're going to fire crosses into the box. All we have to do is close out the win, it's not rocket science, get bodies behind the ball, maybe bring on Barry for Barkley. What manager in his right mind brings on a second striker when we're down to 10 men and defending a lead ? If some heads did go maybe the lack of leadership from the bench played a part in that.
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I largely disagree, as Niasse for Lennon was a like-for-like switch. Things were going perfectly fine when the sub was made, so there was no need for drastic change. Except one played excellently, and the other did nothing at all.

I had no problem with him not retreating massively before the first goal, as we were still stretching them and looked well and truly comfortable. But once the pen was missed and then the first goal went in, panic set in. And when the pressure is turned up, it's become abundantly clear this team wilts horrendously. That's not a tactical problem, as the tactics were spot on until a missed pen caused heads to drop.

The lack of balls is still on Martinez though, no question.
 

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