Roberto Martinez discussion

[chazzle_dazzle]

is it a suprise?

Jesus i think there are some fans on here who could read entire threads on martinez from his wigan days and still defend him to the hilt because he just needs a chance/unlucky/players fault/fans fault/refs fault

Hahaha honestly no. When we got him i wasn't sure because of the whole relegation thing... I thought i would give him the benefit of the doubt, but he has took us so far backwards its actually quite astounding. That first season is obviously the fluke built on Moyes foundations of a good defence.

Its a shame, as if he sorted out the sides of his management that are completely lacking, he could be really good - but the fact he has been managing 10 years and refuses to acknowledge them says it all.

However i didn't expect for one minute when i read that when it first came out that i would be sitting here buzzing my tits off that they would be completely right.

 

[Toffee-nerd]

I agree that things have been going poorly for 2 years now, I said as much in an earlier post. I just don't think the board will sack him in a situation where one result is seen as the tipping point/last straw. If it happens it will be once the season is finished and they review the team's performance in its entirety.

The current board. Who knows what the board will look like in 12 months time or indeed the squad. Martinez is squandering the potential of the squad but the majority of it is now a squad he's put together so it's a difficult call. No doubt about it though we should be doing better and when you compare Leicester's squad to ours I think ours is better

 

[Tree13]

http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=42107.0

Again, interesting read of points.

No agenda here, just interesting to read the odd point here and there which is years ago in his managerial career. Im sure not all of these are relevant to the here and now either

Also, picked out for reference here;

That is some of the most scarily accurate stuff I have ever read, apart from the utter garbage about Alcaraz being good.

 

[DrEFC]

Again, interesting read of points.

No agenda here, just interesting to read the odd point here and there which is years ago in his managerial career. Im sure not all of these are relevant to the here and now either

Also, picked out for reference here;

Spooky how close this is to what's happened so far and we know what happened next to Wigan[/QUOTE]

" I don't think Martinez will replicate the same success of Moyes at Everton. Moyes seems to me like the kind of guy who is always willing to change something if it isn't working, whereas Martinez will beat a dead horse for all it is worth. This rigidity will possibly mean that Everton have periods where his attractive play decimates other teams in the league with a more primitive playing style, but then other teams will be well prepared for his often predictable ethos of focussing all possession down one flank by passing sideways across the pitch, which is easily negated by the opposition playing a wider formation. Therefore, I think under Martinez you will have absolutely blinders and then the next week absolute shockers, but never the same consistency as a manager like Moyes who can prepare a defence for the inevitability of a counter-attack started by a poor pass, which Martinez was utterly hopeless at during his time here. "

Where do you think Everton will finish? why?

" 12th. I think you will spend the first half of the season adapting to his style of play and the second half wondering where the defence has gone. You will win games though, you do have a better side than Wigan. "

" My guess would be 10th-12th. Moyes' stability was a very solid basis for the team, and is now gone. You'll probably wonder why you've gifted so many points when you could've been in the Champions league if you hadn't conceded so many silly, needless goals. "

"Around 12th to 8th because of the high quality of the team he has inherited. I think his stubbornness and the significant change in style will hinder your performances.


*so hoped his first season meant this was just jealous bile*

 

[Ashtonian]

Hahaha honestly no. When we got him i wasn't sure because of the whole relegation thing... I thought i would give him the benefit of the doubt, but he has took us so far backwards its actually quite astounding. That first season is obviously the fluke built on Moyes foundations of a good defence.

Its a shame, as if he sorted out the sides of his management that are completely lacking, he could be really good - but the fact he has been managing 10 years and refuses to acknowledge them says it all.

However i didn't expect for one minute when i read that when it first came out that i would be sitting here buzzing my tits off that they would be completely right.

I don't think none of us did to be honest mate!

there are so many warning signs, from the fact that he used similar tactics at wigan and refused to change them, all the way to the wigan fans predicting our league position. The whole situation does worry me that we will give him more time next season to keep going with this terrible management, he is clearly a championship manager at best, only there has his tactics led anywhere half succesful, his teams since have gone back year on year playing pretty football.

 

[chazzle_dazzle]

I don't think none of us did to be honest mate!

there are so many warning signs, from the fact that he used similar tactics at wigan and refused to change them, all the way to the wigan fans predicting our league position. The whole situation does worry me that we will give him more time next season to keep going with this terrible management, he is clearly a championship manager at best, only there has his tactics led anywhere half succesful, his teams since have gone back year on year playing pretty football.

Yep - Wigan got plenty of plaudits for playing nice footy - but look where they are now.

I was all for waiting till the end of the season to judge him - but thats gone now with that mental sub... Who's the answer i don't know, but the fact that when Moshiri is rubber stamped and in position we will be in a better position then ever to get someone better in. I don't want any up and comers, no Eddie Howe even though he is a nice bloke. I want a born winner, someone who wins trophies and demands nothing else for the club.

 

[daz4matty]

Yes, Saturday has made me into a very reluctant plotter.

The majesty of those attacking moves and spectacular goals is constantly undermined by Keystone Kops defending and disgraceful game management.

Welcome to the plotters my friend.
But your right the way we defend and how weak we are is scary.
You expect 9 year old kids to cave in like that on a sunday morning not grown men
Spineless from the manager down

 

[Efcjake]

If moshiri is sanctioned soon he will have his mind made up already.

He isn't going to pump millions into a managers transfer budget that he doesn't trust.

If he has been in talks for 18 months he will have seen how badly underperforming we are with the squad we have and will make his decision.

At arsenal he will be used to a certain degree of relative success and I doubt he'd accept the position we are in.

Martinez thinks he is safe but I think that's more wishful thinking than truth

Coming from Arsenal though he understands the importance of identifying a manager with a strategic plan to move the club forward with a focus on sustainable long-term growth and success. It remains to be seen whether he thinks Roberto is the man for that job.

 

[chazzle_dazzle]

Welcome to the plotters my friend.
But your right the way we defend and how weak we are is scary.
You expect 9 year old kids to cave in like that on a sunday morning not grown men
Spineless from the manager down

Hahaha i was at the lads footy match Sunday morning 2-0 up, they then conceded for 2-1 and then conceded a penalty i was like oh god i know where this is going. ended up winning 4-2, which was refreshing after Saturdays antics.

 

[Toffeeslam]

Coming from Arsenal though he understands the importance of identifying a manager with a strategic plan to move the club forward with a focus on sustainable long-term growth and success. It remains to be seen whether he thinks Roberto is the man for that job.

Key word is long term growth and SUCCESS

Martinez will not deliver success as the stats and history tells us

 

[Ashtonian]

Yep - Wigan got plenty of plaudits for playing nice footy - but look where they are now.

I was all for waiting till the end of the season to judge him - but thats gone now with that mental sub... Who's the answer i don't know, but the fact that when Moshiri is rubber stamped and in position we will be in a better position then ever to get someone better in. I don't want any up and comers, no Eddie Howe even though he is a nice bloke. I want a born winner, someone who wins trophies and demands nothing else for the club.

The problem with martinez overall is that you look at his season game on game and you can ease through it all. Actually step back and look at the way it has gone and you see the patterns and you see how the goals and the attacking play compensates for what martinez cant do. If you put someone in there and said right, this bloke is responsible for organizing the defense, you just focus on the attack roberto, then we would benefit massively from that. That wouldn't happen so you have to look at the alternatives, and when you add up the amount of wins in the amount of games alone, that tells its own tale for an 'attacking' manager!

 

[Efcjake]

Key word is long term growth and SUCCESS

Martinez will not deliver success as the stats and history tells us

Past performance is not a guaranteed indicator of future performance and if you've ever met a Liverpool fan you know the value of statistics in football (close to nil).

And for what it is worth, the key word was "Long-term".

How often has someone like Ranieri walked into a job at a team like Leicester and got them competing for the league title. It doesn't happen often, so much so that Leicester's success at the moment is widely regarded as the outlier. If you want to get into statistics there are plenty out there that indicate switching managers midseason tends to have a negative effect on the team's performance.

Things are going to be changing at Everton behind the scenes quite drastically. I would put money down that Roberto would be given at least a year under the new regime to prove he is up to meeting the challenges that will come attached with our increased financial profile. Anyone thinking Moshiri is going to walk in and hand him a pink slip is not being realistic. For starters Kenwright is still on the board and Martinez and him clearly have a good working relationship.

 

[FisherEFC]

If Martinez got sacked he would end up at a Newcastle or Bournmouth type club at best, that's the problem we have. The likes of Pochettino and Koeman would easily find work at CL/EL level clubs as would Billic and possibly Hughes for an English club.

As the tv money makes the middle pack more of an even playing feed it will be the club's with the better manager/tactics that outperform the rest and we are seeing that now. West Brom and Watford are even ahead of us ffs.

 

[The Mighty Quint]

Worst home record in top 6 leagues in Europe, let in 3 or more at home 8 times this season, 7 home defeats, last time we did that we escaped the drop last day of the season.

Moshiri is an accountant, he'll be bang into his statics, if he looks at Martinez record and stats the last two season it's an horrendous record, most other teams would have sacked him a while ago.

I so wanted him to come though, but it's the length of time we've been poor, 2 seasons now, and the squad is the best we've had in 30 years.

Pulis said it the other week when he parked his bus, it's a top 4 squad, all day long.

 

[Toast]

Coming from Arsenal though he understands the importance of identifying a manager with a strategic plan to move the club forward with a focus on sustainable long-term growth and success. It remains to be seen whether he thinks Roberto is the man for that job.

I reckon Roberto can have an unbeaten whole season like Wenger did too mate.