Roberto Martinez discussion

[Saint Domingo]

You've avoided my point.

The example I gave was of a substitution - Alcaraz coming on for Besic - that the fans did not like but did not understand.

I asked why did you choose that example as a moment of good management? Bigging up subs made in a game to ensure a 0-0 home draw and let us play a formation that might let us Nick the game in the last minute? Might have been a decent dub but the overall approach to the game and tactics were woeful.

This one example sums up the entire reason these line of arguments annoy people. Focussing intently on one action of Martinez arguing that blue is red that he got it right. No one cares when the overall picture is completely wrong. Leave in game microscopic pedantic analysis to the in game threads and articulate why Martinez's entire body of results are good enough to continue as Everton manager.

 

[BlueToff]

Exactly. It's a convenient line of argument that isn't it. When Rom wins a game for us with some brilliant goals Martinez takes the credit. When he has an off day or misses even one chance, well that's all on Rom and Roberto can wash his hands of it.

I dread to think where we would be had Lukaku got injured this season. He's been exceptional from start to finish, one of the best strikers in the league, and has rescued loads of games for us. Seeing some fans throwing him under the bus to fuel their delusion of Martinez's infallibility is ridiculous. What fob they expect him to do? 100% chance conversion and 50 goals a season? Anything to shift the blame. #anyonebutroberto

Not at all.

I'm not blaming Rom, I'm saying he is part of a team that is underachieving which is absolutely correct, and that his penalty miss was a factor in our defeat the other day (also a fact). But it's also a defeat that I've cited RM as the main culprit for, IMO.

I don't know how many times I've got to say that I'm now on the fence with RM. Doesn't mean he will be going before the season is out or the player's shouldn't come in for some stick either.

I love Rom. He's far and away our best player. I wish he'd have slotted that pen down the middle and I'm sure he wishes he'd have taken even more of the chances he has had this year. That's what makes him the player he is/will be - his determination to improve.

To do that he needs to be guaranteed game time and he wants to stay in the Prem, which means a team (even a foreign one if it's one of the big teams) will have to ship out the 6th-ever (or around a-bout) highest transfer fee to get him.

If not he'll stay here because we have the money to keep him and he won't refuse to play as he will want to keep on playing games. That's my point.

 

[bluestevon]

...so why retain the old Chairman?

figurehead
ˈfɪɡəhɛd/
noun.

2. a nominal leader or head without real power

 

[Stanley Parker]

Slaven Bilic said; If they scored a penalty, we could have lost three or four nil.

I don't think anyone can deny that the missed penalty was the turning point of the game.

 

[Eric Djemba-Djemba]

Slaven Bilic said; If they scored a penalty, we could have lost three or four nil.

I don't think anyone can deny that the missed penalty was the turning point of the game.

I can.

 

[AJC5]

Slaven Bilic said; If they scored a penalty, we could have lost three or four nil.

I don't think anyone can deny that the missed penalty was the turning point of the game.

Missed penalties are unavoidable. Even Messi misses occasionally. The terrible substitution and inability to defend crosses are avoidable if we had a better manager.

 

[Stanley Parker]

I asked why did you choose that example as a moment of good management? Bigging up subs made in a game to ensure a 0-0 home draw and let us play a formation that might let us Nick the game in the last minute? Might have been a decent dub but the overall approach to the game and tactics were woeful.

This one example sums up the entire reason these line of arguments annoy people. Focussing intently on one action of Martinez arguing that blue is red that he got it right. No one cares when the overall picture is completely wrong. Leave in game microscopic pedantic analysis to the in game threads and articulate why Martinez's entire body of results are good enough to continue as Everton manager.

I didn't choose it as an example of good management.

I gave it as an example of a decision which the fans did not understand.

 

[bluestevon]

Because Kenwright wouldn't sell to him otherwise. Come on Dave, world's worst kept secret.
The minority shareholders alone means Moshiri already has over 50% of the vote...

Granchester still owns 8.5% i think and no chance on earth he would ever side with Kenwright as well, effectively Moshiri has full control of the club already, BlueBill is a token figurehead right now - for how long who knows, could even be as simple as not wanting to replace a man who could be very sick and look bad in the media.

But anyone who thinks that Kenwright has any say whatsoever in any decision anymore is deluded

 

[Stanley Parker]

I can.

Correction; I don't think that any sensible person can deny that the missed penalty was the turning point in the game.

 

[Eric Djemba-Djemba]

Correction; I don't think that any sensible person can deny that the missed penalty was the turning point in the game.

2-0 up when that sub is made. Then we lose 3-2.

 

[Stanley Parker]

Missed penalties are unavoidable. Even Messi misses occasionally. The terrible substitution and inability to defend crosses are avoidable if we had a better manager.

How is a missed penalty unavoidable but an ill-judged substitution or the failure to cut out a cross is not?

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

2-0 up, shape holding, west ham contained comfortably enough when that sub is made. Then we lose 3-2.

Fixed.

 

[Stanley Parker]

2-0 up when that sub is made. Then we lose 3-2.

Tell that to Slaven Bilic.

3-0 and we are home and dry.

 

[Eric Djemba-Djemba]

Tell that to Slaven Bilic.

Think he already knows.

 

[davek]

Because Kenwright wouldn't sell to him otherwise. Come on Dave, world's worst kept secret.
The minority shareholders alone means Moshiri already has over 50% of the vote...

Which only begets the question as to why Kenwright wants to stay on. It wont be to be an obvious nodding dog in the short term.

If Moshiri has kept Kenwright on in an official capacity it'll be to say 'you retain football making decisions'.

As I said to the edge above, there's also no indication that the new major share owner has a negative view of the manager. All we do know for sure is that the two have met and discussed the club and what's required.