Roberto Martinez discussion

[DualityNSNO]

yes a username is a great indictation of whats needed to bring back glory days.

Naturally

@Ossiesfeet @HibbertsLeftFoot @cahill 17 @Straq @moyesaresaviour lol

 

[Stanley Parker]

Slaven Bilic 'Everton can't deal with crosses into the box'

So if you accpet his word as gold doesn't that make martinez wrong stating that we have no problem defending crosses, or is Slaven only right some of the time when it suits what you want to hear?

They are quite different statements. The first is an opinion about that particular stage of the game where he was actually a participant. The second is a broader opinion about the way Everton play, where his knowledge may not be so deep.

He did bring on Carroll and Sakho and tell his team to play crosses into the area. And he was successful. Tempting though it is to attribute cause and effect in the game, the two are in fact very hard to establish in football. It's difficult to know exactly how important the substitutions by either side were.

 

[Stanley Parker]

You don't say?

Lukaku didn't score, and we did lose 2-3

So what's your point?

Didn't you read my post? My point is exactly that.

The missed penalty was the turning point!

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

Didn't you read my post?

My point is that the missed penalty was the turning point!

So, one missed opportunity in one minute, is a bigger factor than shipping two goals in three minutes - or three in thirteen when a certain player's been introduced and changed the entire formation of a team that was comfortably managing a two-goal lead?

How right you are...

 

[Lanolin]

They are quite different statements. The first is an opinion about that particular stage of the game where he was actually a participant. The second is a broader opinion about the way Everton play, where his knowledge may not be so deep.

He did bring on Carroll and Sakho and tell his team to play crosses into the area. And he was successful. Tempting though it is to attribute cause and effect in the game, the two are in fact very hard to establish in football. It's difficult to know exactly how important the substitutions by either side were.

Didn't you read my post? My point is exactly that.

The missed penalty was the turning point!

Keep contradicting yourself mate. It's much easier than me having to do it.

 

[orchard]

I think there's an assumption that Martinez is the only manager on Earth that would cultivate flair.

Why do people defend Martinez go back to moyes like he was God awful.

He wasn't good enough to quite get us past that glass ceiling but he is / was better for us than Martinez. Easily as well though.

But they both aren't good enough to get us to where we want to be.

 

[Stanley Parker]

So, one missed opportunity in one minute, is a bigger factor than shipping two goals in three minutes - or three in thirteen when a certain player's been introduced and changed the entire formation of a team that was comfortably managing a two-goal lead?

How right you are...

Clearly, the one led to the other.

 

[BlueToff]

I think it's important to make the distinction that it wasn't just the sub that was the problem, it was the tactical set up that went with it. It wasn't a case of simply bringing on/taking off the wrong player, it was a tactical misjudgement which he failed to rectify even once they'd pulled one back.

I agree though that in the previous 75 minutes I had no arguments with his selections, subs or tactics.

Yeh agree mate.

 

[AaronTheBlue]

I think there's an assumption that Martinez is the only manager on Earth that would cultivate flair.

It's naive to think you can't have both solid defense and flair in attack.

Just turns out Martinez can't balance it, it happens in football where a manager just can't make it wwork despite all the money he spends.

We need a proper proven manager now. A winner.

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

Clearly, the one led to the other.

Oh, but of course.

 

[BlueToff]

Unfortunately we seem to have had quite a few of those "errors" this season which have bit us in the rear end.

I can't think of many that have come at the direct hand of a Martinez error in judgement.

I think the players are equally to blame for a lot of them as well.

Ultimately though the manager's job is to sort out the problems of the players and so far RM hasn't shown he can do that consistently, which is why he has until the end of the season to show he can.

 

[Stanley Parker]

Keep contradicting yourself mate. It's much easier than me having to do it.

Where's the contradiction?

I think the defeat would have been avoided if we had scored from the penalty.

You think the defeat could have been avoided by a different substitution.

Two different opinions!

 

[chicoazul]

But to create space for Deulofeu and Lennon to provide the cross, we are using the full back to make the forward run to commit the opposition full back. The result is the same, the full back is pushed on. Look at the conceded goal against Chelsea, we're 2-0 up and Oviedo bombs forward, it breaks down and Fabregas, under no pressure, hits a long pass to play in Costa who is man for man with Jags. Most sides would have an extra man at the back and not be man for man. At 2-0 up most sides wouldn't have Oviedo bombing forward either. That goal was easily avoided, but yet people will point to the contribution Jags/Howard made and think it was individual error, when in fact the route cause was the system.

On the left hand side we're pretty much still using the full back to provide the width and the cross. With the player ahead of him cutting inside. Be that Baines, Ovideo or Galloway, it's been largely the same.

Barry's role has been to take the ball from the defence and start the play. Barry has played well this season in what he has done, but in this system the game is so open when sides attack us he can't possibly cover enough ground to close off the space. Bear in mind I'm mostly talking about when we don't have the ball and the affects that our possession and attacking style, are having on the midfield. If you open the game up so much, like Martinez seems to do, then you need great mobility for the midfield to get back if it breaks down, and discipline for them not to get caught ahead of the play.

I know what I want, I want a system that suits the players we have. Not one that relies on players having extraordinary work rates to cover ground, or face having the game open up with loads of gaps for the opposition to exploit.

I want a manager who can organise the team to be able to defend crosses. If we don't have the aerial ability in the box to defend them, then we need to stop them coming in. But we neither put pressure on the ball, or attack the ball when it comes in to our own box. Earlier in the season, people blamed Howard for not coming for the crosses. Seems Joel doesn't either, and I believe it's because we don't pressure the ball and instead allow sides to pick out good crosses in to the box.

I think the squad Everton have is a really good one. I believe a better manager would get a lot more out of the players, by making the side harder to beat. Harder to break down, and play to the strengths of the players within the side. I honestly don't think it makes too much of a difference which players Martinez has in the side, if he continues to play the same system he does, then we will not be in full control of our own destiny and wont achieve anything. I don't think it'd take too much away from the attacking either. We'd just do it more efficiently.

Did you submit this for your FIFA A Badge mate?

Good luck.

 

[BlueToff]

If Lukaku had scored, West Ham could not have won 2-3!

I know mate. I've mentioned the penalty miss as a factor as it certainly was and would have wrapped up the points. For that I got accused by some of blaming Lukaku.

I wasn't, it was stating a fact.

However, I do think we would have stood a much better chance of winning had RM either left that sub a little while longer as we looked in fine shape, or being a bit smarter and either taken Rom off for Niasse or brought somebody more experienced in the PL/defensive minded on.

That I feel was the turning point as when Lennon went off we lost our shape that had so far been excellent up to that point.

Factors such as the red card, penalty miss and terrible Mori/Jags defending at the end should not be ignored however and not pinned on RM.

He is responsible what he can control and that was the sub/tactics in that last 15 minutes.

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

Where's the contradiction?

I think the defeat would have been avoided if we had scored from the penalty.

You think the defeat could have been avoided by a different substitution.

Two different opinions!

Both are as valid as the other.

However, we're talking about one goal in favour, as opposed to three against, given the circumstances. Which had the bigger effect - the one about one goal, or the one about three?