In fairness I think had that pen/the chance afterwards gone in, the points were wrapped up - dodgy sub or not. I think the pen miss made W.Ham realise they weren't down and out and then the sub/tactics in that last 10 or so handed it them on a plate - combined with God awful defending from the players (e.g. Mori's attempted headers, McCarthy clearance, Barkley half-arsed attempt at a block and the poor tracking of Payet from Barry (who'd just come on mind) and Besic). Think some of that can be put down to fatigue but also general sloppiness which I won't pin all at RM's door - the players failed to prove they are as good as we all think they are as well as RM messing up.
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In fairness I think had that pen/the chance afterwards gone in, the points were wrapped up - dodgy sub or not. I think the pen miss made W.Ham realise they weren't down and out and then the sub/tactics in that last 10 or so handed it them on a plate - combined with God awful defending from the players (e.g. Mori's attempted headers, McCarthy clearance, Barkley half-arsed attempt at a block and the poor tracking of Payet from Barry (who'd just come on mind) and Besic). Think some of that can be put down to fatigue but also general sloppiness which I won't pin all at RM's door - the players failed to prove they are as good as we all think they are as well as RM messing up.
Well the contradictions would be;
a) You value Bilic's opinion on how the game would have panned out had we scored the pen, but not his opinion on Everton's weaknesses. This despite his experiences as a player and manager giving him in an insight into one, and the other being mere guesswork.
b) You say that it is very hard to establish cause and effect in football and then just seconds later put forward the statement that the missed penalty was the key turning point in the game - establishing cause and effect.
c) You have made a number of posts today pointing out a substitution made by Martinez last season which you claim was as a result of him 'seeing an opportunity', and claim that as a direct result of said sub we created a chance. You then go on to say that 'It's difficult to know exactly how important the substitutions by either side were.'
Don't get me wrong, your opinion is perfectly valid and may well be right, we'll never know, but you're definitely contradicting yourself.
Saint Domingo
Player Valuation: £90m
Petty arguments about in game substitutions are a result of an almost unanimous acceptance (even infiltrated into external media) that results over the last 20 months have been extremely poor. For me he is in the last chance saloon with the cup. He has to win it to regain any hope that he is a manager who can take us forward.
What about if he lost the cup game but won every single league game left?
Can we be fair about the Lukaku miss? Does anyone have even the slightest feeling we STILL might have bonked that up even if he had made it? I mean, 'Im 90% confident we win that match outright' still means 10%.
Its all hypothetical anyways, there's no way to quantify what would have happened because it didn't.
Its all hypothetical anyways, there's no way to quantify what would have happened because it didn't.
Hmmm. Suppose there's always the chance but i'm as certain as I can be that if that goes in we win that game
It didn't. We lost.
Everton, that
Still getting to me the West Ham game the more I think about it. When it went to 2-2 Martinez took off Lukaku and put on Barry, obviously that was to try and see out the draw, if that was the case, why couldn't he have brought on Barry for Lennon to see out a 2-0 lead?
That's the thing mate.
He well and truly effed it up in that final 15 minutes all round and didn't know how to fix it.
I won't defend him for that it was clueless after what had been an outstanding performance
Not would.
MikeH72
Player Valuation: £100m
Because he's thick
That's the worst thing for me, he had his tactics spot on from the start, bringing Besic on was also a good move, we're comfortably winning 2-0, then Martinez for some reason loses the plot.
chazzle_dazzle
Player Valuation: £35m
Said it directly after the match, in one game we seen the best and absolute worst of Martinez.
bluestevon
Player Valuation: £80m
The most goals conceded at home of any team in the top 6 leagues in Europe
45 points lost from winning positions in his tenure
More losses at home than in Moyes last 3 seasons
Middle ranking?
Positions finished in Moyes last 7 seasons 6,5,5,8,7,7,6, a mean of 6th - which however way you want to look at it isn't middle ranking it's top 30% of the league taken from 7 seasons so its no fluke, usually enough for a good shot at qualifying for Europe, 8th highest paying in wages which has been our consistant position the past 3 seasons - so not too moderately backed on that count.
If we are going to think of Everton as middle ranking then maybe the reason is a manager who looks like having 2 consecutive bottom half finishes has a part to play in that.
Manager of 'this quality' - exactly what quality is that Dave? Seriously a manager who has managed two achievements of note in his 7 years in the top flight, the 72 point trophy, and the fa cup, to counter both those though, the 72 point trophy saw us beat Arsenal to have 4th in our own hands and we absolutely bottled it with some bizarre managerial decisions thrown in to help (resting McCarthy lol), and the fa cup came at the cost of being relegated.
What quality is he showing where it really matters - the results - the quality to get 5th then 11th and now be sat in 12th Dave?
Maybe the new owner will aspire to more than style over substance - which is exactly what martinez is btw, all style no substance, why should we sack him - can sum it up in one simple sentence mate, we should sack him because he has shown now he is not good enough for the job
I'm still firmly in the Martinez camp, and still think he's the right man for the job, but give you your due there mate, you put up a really convincing argument in that piece that's hard to ignore, even for daveK.
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