Roberto Martinez discussion

[bluestevon]

15 games - 15 goals conceded (and 26 scored). Count them.

Are you counting the postponed Derby game amongst the 15 games mate - cos can tell you right now since the start of the year we have played 14 games

 

[bluestevon]

... Waits for @davek to check his fixture list and facepalm

 

[Efcjake]

Love how the locusts are out, post 1,000 messages at @davek and after each one either mock him or say different variations of "game over", "end of" etc.

No matter how many different ways you paint it, there is a view shared by many that we are indeed progressing thanks to this manager.

No need for name calling because people disagree in their interpretation of the team and Martinez' performance.

There's also the view shared by many that Martinez isn't progressing the team at this point. One which has been supported for 18 months using the only real metric we have to judge his performance, the accumulated points total.

I'm not calling for his head yet, but davek needs to be more balanced with his dispensation of praise to Martinez and criticisms of Moyes to be taken seriously. I don't disagree with everything he says but there is so much overwhelming and unfounded bias in favour of Martinez to the point where you can't talk to him about this season or last season because he got 72 points in his first one. There is no acknowledgment that we have struggled at times over the last 18 months it just blind optimism coming from him.

 

[Saint Domingo]

There is something fundamental wrong: it's the home form. That's the blackhole. Cups and PL away form are very good.

Our away form is 6th best in the league isn't it? Not brilliant but decent enough. League cup got knocked out by the first decent side, who knows what will happen in FA cup but Carlisle D&R and Bournemouth reserves is hardly running the gauntlet. If Chelsea cane us Martinez's cup pattern will continue: meet decent premier league opposition, go out of cup.

 

[davek]

Fair enough will go one better than that then Dave

1994-95 42 8 9 4 31 23 3 8 10 13 28 -7 50 15th
1995-96 38 10 5 4 35 19 7 5 7 29 25 +20 61 6th
1996-97 38 7 4 8 24 22 3 8 8 20 35 -13 42 15th
1997-98 38 7 5 7 25 27 2 8 9 16 29 -15 40 17th
1998-99 38 6 8 5 22 12 5 2 12 20 35 -7 43 14th
1999-2k 38 7 9 3 36 19 5 5 9 23 28 +12 50 13th
2000-01 38 6 8 5 29 27 5 1 13 16 32 -14 42 16th
2001-02 38 8 4 7 26 23 3 6 10 19 34 -12 43 15th
2002-03 38 11 5 3 28 19 6 3 10 20 30 -1 59 7th
2003-04 38 8 5 6 27 20 1 7 11 18 37 -12 39 17th
2004-05 38 12 2 5 24 15 6 5 8 21 31 -1 61 4th
2005-06 38 8 4 7 22 22 6 4 9 12 27 -15 50 11th
2006-07 38 11 4 4 33 17 4 9 6 19 19 +16 58 6th
2007-08 38 11 4 4 34 17 8 4 7 21 16 +22 65 5th
2008-09 38 8 6 5 31 20 9 6 4 24 17 +18 63 5th
2009-10 38 11 6 2 35 21 5 7 7 25 28 +11 61 8th
2010-11 38 9 7 3 31 23 4 8 7 20 22 +6 54 7th
2011-12 38 10 3 6 28 15 5 8 6 22 25 +10 56 7th
2012-13 38 12 6 1 33 17 4 9 6 22 23 +15 63 6th
2013-14 38 13 3 3 38 19 8 6 5 23 20 +22 72 5th
2014-15 38 7 7 5 27 21 5 4 10 21 29 -2 47 11th

our records since 1995, now tell me amongst which group of managers would martinez look right at home with given his last season and this seasons points totals?

I don't even like the bloke at all, but Moyes took over a team looking like it was going down and got them to safety in 15th, next season took that team from 15th to 7th, had a terrible following season then rebounded back with our best ever premiership finish - and one that even saint bobby failed to do by getting 4th!

Moyes took over a team that was constantly battling the drop and in a total mess and turned them into one that was top 6, martinez took over a team in top 6 and is taking us the opposite direction, both of them had one blip season, Moyes in 03/04 when he flirted with relegation, Martinez in 13/14 when he flirted with top 4, both aberrations

All you've managed to do there is to show that in Martinez's first season he's right there with Moyes best seasons in terms of finishing place (though well ahead in points terms) and that his only other full season with us has him somewhere between Moyes' average finish and the finishes of Smith and Royle.

To make any real comparison you have to have a run of seasons to compare, not two and an unfinished one.

 

[davek]

Are you counting the postponed Derby game amongst the 15 games mate - cos can tell you right now since the start of the year we have played 14 games

... Waits for @davek to check his fixture list and facepalm

Ha Ha. Yeah.

 

[Efcjake]

Was it though? Or did Arteta Pienaar Osman Baines Cahill Yakubu Donovan Coleman and Mirallas actually serve up some pretty decent stuff? Including at one point one of the best left hand sides in the prem.

Last season was the definition of dire football. Worse than anything I ever saw Moyes serve up.

There were times when we played some nice stuff.


There were a lot of days that I distinctly remember wanting to deck him for playing Neville or Heitinga in center midfield or Ossie on the wing. There were the times when we had Felliani and Cahill up front and we were playing route one football no question about it. Every time we came up against one of the "Sky 4" you knew we were going to sit back for the whole match.

 

[Khalekan]

6th is nowhere. In fact it's worse than finishing 12th, at least with the latter you dont get the kick in the balls consolation prize of a EL campaign.

Using that logic, we may as well let Chelsea win on Saturday and be done.

Because going on to win the F.A. Cup results in an EL campaign.......and that is nowt but a "kick in the balls"

So play up Chelsea......spare us having to play in the EL next season

 

[davek]

Our away form is 6th best in the league isn't it? Not brilliant but decent enough. League cup got knocked out by the first decent side, who knows what will happen in FA cup but Carlisle D&R and Bournemouth reserves is hardly running the gauntlet. If Chelsea cane us Martinez's cup pattern will continue: meet decent premier league opposition, go out of cup.

I cant remember a better on the road set of results...apart from RM's first season here.

The cups: you play what gets put in front of you. Was Everton's ECWC worthless because we only beat Bayern Munich of note?

 

[Khalekan]

Ok, you're on a wind-up today.

Today?

He says that every other day

 

[chicoazul]

Play fair mate. After the Bounemouth result Chico and Mouts Goat were on here (with Davek) throwing a victory parade demanding bizarre surrenders from posters who hold reservations about Martinez. Telling everyone that the war was over and victory was theirs.

If you want to see the balance of views on this forum I think the Martinez in or out poll will paint a different picture.

Locusts? I prefer 'plotterz' mate.

Tag @MoutsGoat and me in when you're having a mini meltdown please mate, so we can enjoy it.

 

[Efcjake]

Yeah let's ignore that Moyes effectively inherited a group of pub players and Rooney (who was then sold). He saved us from relegation in his first 9 games, took us to 7th in his first full season. Ok yes had a horrendous second season but at the time no one was even surprised given the state of the squad, we were never in any relegation trouble either. Then he took that motley crew to fourth (probably the greatest prem achievement up until Ranieri will surpass it this season). After that we levelled out as regular challengers for European qualification and he got us back to the latter stages of the FA cup again.

But yeah let's compare his 03/04 with Martinez's 14/15 because they're exactly the same aren't they. It's not as if one had a deep squad full of international talent and a 30 mill striker and the other had a relegation battled squad and zero money.

 

[AJC5]

Love how the locusts are out, post 1,000 messages at @davek and after each one either mock him or say different variations of "game over", "end of" etc.

No matter how many different ways you paint it, there is a view shared by many that we are indeed progressing thanks to this manager.

Loads of people are going to vote for Trump. What's your point?

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

Last season was the definition of dire football. Worse than anything I ever saw Moyes serve up.

In fairness, a few of the pre-Christmas moyles' seasons were absolute garbage. But, by the same token, moyles turned most of them around post-Christmas.

I'm not certain Martinez could, even if he wanted to.

 

[Efcjake]

I'll be honest, this is much more entertaining than watching people try and fume about Moshiri.