Roberto Martinez discussion

[Saint Domingo]

Tag @MoutsGoat and me in when you're having a mini meltdown please mate, so we can enjoy it.

Reading all my posts? Ta my pal.

 

[mkrudden]

No need for name calling because people disagree in their interpretation of the team and Martinez' performance.

There's also the view shared by many that Martinez isn't progressing the team at this point. One which has been supported for 18 months using the only real metric we have to judge his performance, the accumulated points total.

I'm not calling for his head yet, but davek needs to be more balanced with his dispensation of praise to Martinez and criticisms of Moyes to be taken seriously. I don't disagree with everything he says but there is so much overwhelming and unfounded bias in favour of Martinez to the point where you can't talk to him about this season or last season because he got 72 points in his first one. There is no acknowledgment that we have struggled at times over the last 18 months it just blind optimism coming from him.

Mate, "name calling"? It was a little bit of jesting and nothing more. @Saint Domingo - one of those in my cross hair - took it exactly as it was intended.

It's quite evident that there are those with a differing opinion than Davek, they reside in this thread every time the manager speaks or we draw/lose a game.

To me its clear, he's implemented a style which is entertaining and enjoyable to watch. We can carve open any team in that league.

Add to that we have clearly improved defensively, and there is obviously further to go in this regard, would suggest not only is he aware of the work that needs continuing on the side HE has built, but also is the man to carry out the work.

I repeat, his first season showed exactly what he is capable of with players playing well and a consistent VII. Howard, Distin, Coleman and Baines were all ever presents in that first season.

Lets see what the manager does with a bucket full of cash to go out and get replicate players in their prime.

Then let's judge.

 

[mkrudden]

Loads of people are going to vote for Trump. What's your point?

LOL

 

[AJC5]

Mate, "name calling"? It was a little bit of jesting and nothing more. @Saint Domingo - one of those in my cross hair - took it exactly as it was intended.

It's quite evident that there are those with a differing opinion than Davek, they reside in this thread every time the manager speaks or we draw/lose a game.

To me its clear, he's implemented a style which is entertaining and enjoyable to watch. We can carve open any team in that league.

Add to that we have clearly improved defensively, and there is obviously further to go in this regard, would suggest not only is he aware of the work that needs continuing on the side HE has built, but also is the man to carry out the work.

I repeat, his first season showed exactly what he is capable of with players playing well and a consistent VII. Howard, Distin, Coleman and Baines were all ever presents in that first season.

Lets see what the manager does with a bucket full of cash to go out and get replicate players in their prime.

Then let's judge.

No, he's worked with these players for 3 years and we are still a shambles. Look at what Potch has done at Spurs. They are a much tighter unit. Potch teams always kill us coz Martinez can't adapt his tactics. This transfer kitty might be our last chance to break the top 4. It is too important to risk giving it to Bobby.

 

[Efcjake]

Mate, "name calling"? It was a little bit of jesting and nothing more. @Saint Domingo - one of those in my cross hair - took it exactly as it was intended.

It's quite evident that there are those with a differing opinion than Davek, they reside in this thread every time the manager speaks or we draw/lose a game.

To me its clear, he's implemented a style which is entertaining and enjoyable to watch. We can carve open any team in that league.

Add to that we have clearly improved defensively, and there is obviously further to go in this regard, would suggest not only is he aware of the work that needs continuing on the side HE has built, but also is the man to carry out the work.

I repeat, his first season showed exactly what he is capable of with players playing well and a consistent VII. Howard, Distin, Coleman and Baines were all ever presents in that first season.

Lets see what the manager does with a bucket full of cash to go out and get replicate players in their prime.

Then let's judge.

I'm 100% with you for the time being. My main concern is the defensive side of Martinez' style of play and as you and davek have said, it has improved since the new year.


I'm still not convinced though, only because the two previous seasons were so very different that I don't know which one is the accurate reflection of what Martinez has set up here.

If we're not in the top half come the end of the season that might see me join the "locusts" and set fire to my pitch fork.

I just don't see the point in pretending everything is rosy and that last season didn't really count because he got 72 points in the season before. I don't think it is necessary to try and pipe down people who are bringing up some legitimate concerns about what's been happening to the team.

 

[mkrudden]

No, he's worked with these players for 3 years and we are still a shambles. Look at what Potch at Spurs

Name "these players" who have been with the club since he first joined.

 

[whiteshadow]

Look at the season as a whole. We have the worst home defensive record in Europe's major top flight leagues. I'd say yes, something is fundamentally wrong.

And the 2nd highest amount of goals scored at home in the league as well as an away record that's better than both the Manchester teams.

Good to know people don't just pick and choose what stats to look at to back up their arguments while ignoring anything else. lol

 

[mkrudden]

I'm 100% with you for the time being. My main concern is the defensive side of Martinez' style of play and as you and davek have said, it has improved since the new year.


I'm still not convinced though, only because the two previous seasons were so very different that I don't know which one is the accurate reflection of what Martinez has set up here.

If we're not in the top half come the end of the season that might see me join the "locusts" and set fire to my pitch fork.

I just don't see the point in pretending everything is rosy and that last season didn't really count because he got 72 points in the season before. I don't think it is necessary to try and pipe down people who are bringing up some legitimate concerns about what's been happening to the team.

I don't think all is rosy. I also don't think anyone should be dissuaded in coming forward with a view different to mine.

I do however think that "locusts" is far from offensive and merely implies the sheer volume of posts all aimed at one person means debate is difficult.

In short. I meant no offence.

 

[AJC5]

Name "these players" who have been with the club since he first joined.

Howard, Robles, Coleman, Jags, Stones, Baines, Ovideo, Kev, McCarthy, Barry, Barkley, Kone, Rom, Osman, Pienaar.

Del has been here two seasons out of three.

New players are Mori and Lennon.

 

[Efcjake]

I don't think all is rosy. I also don't think anyone should be dissuaded in coming forward with a view different to mine.

I do however think that "locusts" is far from offensive and merely implies the sheer volume of posts all aimed at one person means debate is difficult.

In short. I meant no offence.

I get what you meant now.

Seeing "plotters" and the like does my head in. Something people resort to when they don't want to actually have a discussion which is the whole point of a forum in the first place.

People have their own expectations for the club and nobody's is really right or wrong.

 

[JAYTALITY]

Do me a favour: outside of the PL wins of Leeds and Blackburn and Liverpool United City Arsenal and Chelsea, tell me how many PL managers have amassed the number of points RM piled up in that first season. I'm not even sure Spurs did it more than once.

As for your point: there's no use using Wigan's season stats, so knock those four off you seven straight away. He's failed once to get top half with us. That's where we stand right now.

Wow, even if no other managers outside the ones you mentioned didn't finish over 72 points. The argument is still so very lame.

But I'll prove you blisteringly stupidly wrong anyway..

92 season, villa 74 points, Norwich 72

93 ", Blackburn 84, Newcastle 77

94 ", Forest 77, Rs 74, Leeds 73

95", Newcastle 75

98", Chelsea 75

2000" RS 80

2004", Arsenal 83, United 77

2006 ", Rs 2006......

Do you want me to go on because I'm getting tired of this, in general like.

 

[chicoazul]

Reading all my posts? Ta my pal.

Just the thread mate. When you've had ten more years of Everton I'll probably take more note of your posts like.

 

[Toffeeslam]

Mate, "name calling"? It was a little bit of jesting and nothing more. @Saint Domingo - one of those in my cross hair - took it exactly as it was intended.

It's quite evident that there are those with a differing opinion than Davek, they reside in this thread every time the manager speaks or we draw/lose a game.

To me its clear, he's implemented a style which is entertaining and enjoyable to watch. We can carve open any team in that league.

Add to that we have clearly improved defensively, and there is obviously further to go in this regard, would suggest not only is he aware of the work that needs continuing on the side HE has built, but also is the man to carry out the work.

I repeat, his first season showed exactly what he is capable of with players playing well and a consistent VII. Howard, Distin, Coleman and Baines were all ever presents in that first season.

Lets see what the manager does with a bucket full of cash to go out and get replicate players in their prime.

Then let's judge.

Then lets judge...a lot of people said that after last season and were willing to give Martinez a chance after his debut season.

The defeats and the manner of them are bad enough but the post match comments seem to be bizarre at best and makes him out to be a space cadet living on another planet.

Look attacking wise this team certainly know where the goal is and we have played some sexy football this season how ever defensively this has been the worst I have seen for years in terms of how we capitulate at the 1st sign of trouble add to that the defensive record and alarm bells start to ring.

Would I trust Martinez with a bucket load of cash in the transfer market ? well he has not signed too many duds yet so not worried there but we need to invest in the defensive area's based on what's gone on. The question is can Martinez learn from this season and the last to tweak the system to be more solid at the back ??? Based on what I have seen so far sadly that's NO.

Read somewhere we haven't replaced Distin which is a interesting thought but we also need leaders !!

Ok I stop rambling now

 

[whiteshadow]

The question is can RM get the balance in the team right, he has away from home.

If he stays he'll have the money in the summer to address the problems fully to get the right balance. The question is wether he's smart enough to sign players that will give us that balance.

If he's here next season he won't have any excuse, even if any players leave, as he'll have had the money over the summer to complete his squad.

I'm not opposed to him staying, after being spoken to by the board about what they expect from him and the team next season, and using next season as his final chance to show he is the man to take us forward.

I totally understand why some people don't think he deserves that chance and that we should get rid of him, I think he's shown enough promise for me personally to try and be patient though.

I'm not going to throw my toys out of the pram cos we're a few places below where we probably should be. I'm looking at the good and the bad that he brings to our team. From what he's done so far the jury is still out in my mind but to me he's worth giving that extra time because if he sorts the defensive side out I really believe we'll do something special.

 

[Darth Vader]

The question is can RM get the balance in the team right, he has away from home.

If he stays he'll have the money in the summer to address the problems fully to get the right balance. The question is wether he's smart enough to sign players that will give us that balance.

If he's here next season he won't have any excuse, even if any players leave, as he'll have had the money over the summer to complete his squad.

I'm not opposed to him staying, after being spoken to by the board about what they expect from him and the team next season, and using next season as his final chance to show he is the man to take us forward.

I totally understand why some people don't think he deserves that chance and that we should get rid of him, I think he's shown enough promise for me personally to try and be patient though.

I'm not going to throw my toys out of the pram cos we're a few places below where we probably should be. I'm looking at the good and the bad that he brings to our team. From what he's done so far the jury is still out in my mind but to me he's worth giving that extra time because if he sorts the defensive side out I really believe we'll do something special.

What??

So your saying he needs more than than 100m he's already spent to get us challenging the top 6 teams?