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Roberto Martinez discussion

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Artetafan said:
It was never going to happen in a season.

This season is most likely going to be a failed one, but that happens. There's been enough signs that we picked the right guy to succeed at a later date once he has time to work with our players more and bring in his own guys.
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Spot on. I was surprised with his progress. Not gonna slate him coz he hasn't met his own high expectations.
 
Artetafan said:
It was never going to happen in a season.

This season is most likely going to be a failed one, but that happens. There's been enough signs that we picked the right guy to succeed at a later date once he has time to work with our players more and bring in his own guys.
Click to expand...

Top 7 wouldn't be my idea of failure for. First season playing in a new way. Not by a long chalk. I'd consider it to be a great marker down.

We can actually get 5th/6th with a points total in excess of anything Moyes run up. If that happens you'd have to say that was a fantastic first effort.

Actually, this feller has had £17m robbed off him in squad value. To do what he's done is nothing short of excellent.
 
davek said:
Top 7 wouldn't be my idea of failure for. First season playing in a new way. Not by a long chalk. I'd consider it to be a great marker down.

We can actually get 5th/6th with a points total in excess of anything Moyes run up. If that happens you'd have to say that was a fantastic first effort.

Actually, this feller has had £17m robbed off him in squad value. To do what he's done is nothing short of excellent.
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Success is a trophy or europe.

We finish 7th and don't get into europe, and also don't win a trophy or win a derby, then that's a failed season.

But, you know, I happen to think Moyes failed as a manager here after he took us from a team fighting relegation to four european campaigns which I know is a minority view. It's silverware or nothing for me.

If martinez leaves this club without a trophy, imo he's failed as a manager. I don't think he will, I think if we give him 5 years, and we probably will, he'll get us that trophy and asking for one in his first year is unreasonable but I'm not going along with the neville-kenwright ethos that 7th is success, not ever.
 

The younger generation of footy fans are rash as flipping anything. You must be patient young ones, trust in your elders for they know of what they speak.
 
Is Martinez all that?

We've been knocked out of the FA cup at the same stage as last season (albeit in a less humbling manner) and we're on course for the same league position as last season (possibly lower) plus another poor League Cup campaign. The last manager didn't have the benefit from a disproportionate windfall from the Fellaini transfer last season either.

Serious question marks over the standard/value for money of Alcaraz, Joel, McGeady and Kone.

Not too modest sums of money spent on loan fees and wages for Lukaku and Traore, the latter of which was signed un-fit and is now out for the most of the season. Both will need replacing in the summer. The new players will need a few months to get settled no doubt, meaning next season will be another slow start. Could have signed these new permanant strikers last summer, now that this season looks like at best a 'transition' season or at worst a bit of waste.

The loss of young Deulofeu will make are squad considerbly shallower too in the summer.

People lambasted the previous manager for the way he downplayed/patronised the club and fans but this doesn't exactly fill me with confidence:

"When you bring a player on loan you never have the worry of whether you can keep them long-term. The loan system allows you to keep bringing in players who can make an impact in the short term and bridge those gaps. For clubs with finances like ours that is vital"

The last manager did a pretty good job and concsciously avoided the loan market. And why should a manager ever shy away from fighting to keep best players? Especially considering the flip side is often significant compensation (see Fellaini).

For all I'm happy we changed managers and like the style of play at the moment, I can't help but feel Martinez has some serious limitations/drawbacks.
 
Artetafan said:
Success is a trophy or europe.

We finish 7th and don't get into europe, and also don't win a trophy or win a derby, then that's a failed season.

But, you know, I happen to think Moyes failed as a manager here after he took us from a team fighting relegation to four european campaigns which I know is a minority view. It's silverware or nothing for me.

If martinez leaves this club without a trophy, imo he's failed as a manager. I don't think he will, I think if we give him 5 years, and we probably will, he'll get us that trophy and asking for one in his first year is unreasonable but I'm not going along with the neville-kenwright ethos that 7th is success, not ever.
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I agree, 7th is nowhere. But I'm saying it's very acceptable, as a first effort.

We'll get EL football next season, no question. It'll come down to 7th anyway, but we won't need as we'll finish well and get 5th or 6th.

This manager is untouchable from any criticism for me. The only criticism I 'd put in his direction would be losing in the LC from a winning position. The rest of the so called mistakes are rationalised very easily.

Martinez has been an unqualified success this season.
 

Sylvain said:
Is Martinez all that?

We've been knocked out of the FA cup at the same stage as last season (albeit in a less humbling manner) and we're on course for the same league position as last season (possibly lower) plus another poor League Cup campaign. The last manager didn't have the benefit from a disproportionate windfall from the Fellaini transfer last season either.

Serious question marks over the standard/value for money of Alcaraz, Joel, McGeady and Kone.

Not too modest sums of money spent on loan fees and wages for Lukaku and Traore, the latter of which was signed un-fit and is now out for the most of the season. Both will need replacing in the summer. The new players will need a few months to get settled no doubt, meaning next season will be another slow start. Could have signed these new permanant strikers last summer, now that this season looks like at best a 'transition' season or at worst a bit of waste.

The loss of young Deulofeu will make are squad considerbly shallower too in the summer.

People lambasted the previous manager for the way he downplayed/patronised the club and fans but this doesn't exactly fill me with confidence:

"When you bring a player on loan you never have the worry of whether you can keep them long-term. The loan system allows you to keep bringing in players who can make an impact in the short term and bridge those gaps. For clubs with finances like ours that is vital"

The last manager did a pretty good job and concsciously avoided the loan market. And why should a manager ever shy away from fighting to keep best players? Especially considering the flip side is often significant compensation (see Fellaini).

For all I'm happy we changed managers and like the style of play at the moment, I can't help but feel Martinez has some serious limitations/drawbacks.
Click to expand...


The loan market and extensive use of it is the dominant pattern of our transfer window these days. That is nothing peculiar to our manager.

It's no use looking for loan signings as a way of explain a cup defeat against Arsenal. Our goose was cooked when the draw pulled them out of the hat first.

We got beat fair and square by a team with true world class touch in some players they have.

We've done fantastic this season.
 
Regardless of what happens it's been a 'good' first season by the standard this club has to set itself in the modern era. Whether that has been down to the squad inherited from the previous regime remains to be seen over the coming years.

I like how he wants the team to control the game, whether in the long run he can achieve what he wants with the budget at his disposal I have my doubts.
 

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