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Roberto Martinez discussion

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Artetafan said:
It was never going to happen in a season.

This season is most likely going to be a failed one, but that happens. There's been enough signs that we picked the right guy to succeed at a later date once he has time to work with our players more and bring in his own guys.
Click to expand...

Not quite convinced he can pick them yet:

- Macca: been very good and consistent, but has gone missing in the last few big games. Not incisive with his passing and never wants to shoot.
- Kone: crock
- Alvarez: looked good for half a game, since then not much suggesting he's first-team material. Also, a bit of a crock.
- Joel: can't catch, can't save. No command.
- McGeady: barely looks Prem-quality never mind Everton-quality.

And the loanees:

- Deulofeu: looks exciting and effective at times, at others looks like how Seamus Coleman did in his first season.
- Lukaku: the one big success story, even if his first touch is surprisingly bad. He scores goals and makes ace runs.
- Barry: looked good in the first half of the season. Looks dead tired now and is making mistakes.
- Traore: crock.


So we've got 3 out of 9 players Martinez has brought in who've been a relative success for us (Lukaku, Macca, Barry). Deulofeu hasn't had enough game-time to prove one way or the other. The other 5 haven't contributed very much at all.


The jury's out so far on Martinez's ability to bring in his own guys.
 
davek said:
I agree, 7th is nowhere. But I'm saying it's very acceptable, as a first effort.

We'll get EL football next season, no question. It'll come down to 7th anyway, but we won't need as we'll finish well and get 5th or 6th.

This manager is untouchable from any criticism for me. The only criticism I 'd put in his direction would be losing in the LC from a winning position. The rest of the so called mistakes are rationalised very easily.

Martinez has been an unqualified success this season.
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I hope so, but all we need for it to not go to 7th is arsenal to draw city, tomorrow. And while I agree we're capable of 5th, we've been pretty poor in the last two months to be honest.
 
Quality post that.


Sylvain said:
Is Martinez all that?

We've been knocked out of the FA cup at the same stage as last season (albeit in a less humbling manner) and we're on course for the same league position as last season (possibly lower) plus another poor League Cup campaign. The last manager didn't have the benefit from a disproportionate windfall from the Fellaini transfer last season either.

Serious question marks over the standard/value for money of Alcaraz, Joel, McGeady and Kone.

Not too modest sums of money spent on loan fees and wages for Lukaku and Traore, the latter of which was signed un-fit and is now out for the most of the season. Both will need replacing in the summer. The new players will need a few months to get settled no doubt, meaning next season will be another slow start. Could have signed these new permanant strikers last summer, now that this season looks like at best a 'transition' season or at worst a bit of waste.

The loss of young Deulofeu will make are squad considerbly shallower too in the summer.

People lambasted the previous manager for the way he downplayed/patronised the club and fans but this doesn't exactly fill me with confidence:

"When you bring a player on loan you never have the worry of whether you can keep them long-term. The loan system allows you to keep bringing in players who can make an impact in the short term and bridge those gaps. For clubs with finances like ours that is vital"

The last manager did a pretty good job and concsciously avoided the loan market. And why should a manager ever shy away from fighting to keep best players? Especially considering the flip side is often significant compensation (see Fellaini).

For all I'm happy we changed managers and like the style of play at the moment, I can't help but feel Martinez has some serious limitations/drawbacks.
Click to expand...
 
dholliday said:
Not quite convinced he can pick them yet:

- Macca: been very good and consistent, but has gone missing in the last few big games. Not incisive with his passing and never wants to shoot.
- Kone: crock
- Alvarez: looked good for half a game, since then not much suggesting he's first-team material. Also, a bit of a crock.
- Joel: can't catch, can't save. No command.
- McGeady: barely looks Prem-quality never mind Everton-quality.

And the loanees:

- Deulofeu: looks exciting and effective at times, at others looks like how Seamus Coleman did in his first season.
- Lukaku: the one big success story, even if his first touch is surprisingly bad. He scores goals and makes ace runs.
- Barry: looked good in the first half of the season. Looks dead tired now and is making mistakes.
- Traore: crock.


So we've got 3 out of 9 players Martinez has brought in who've been a relative success for us (Lukaku, Macca, Barry). Deulofeu hasn't had enough game-time to prove one way or the other. The other 5 haven't contributed very much at all.


The jury's out so far on Martinez's ability to bring in his own guys.
Click to expand...

Yeah, fair point. I'd be slightly kinder than you but yeah the jury's out on his skills in the market.

Big test for him in the summer.
 

dholliday said:
Not quite convinced he can pick them yet:

- Macca: been very good and consistent, but has gone missing in the last few big games. Not incisive with his passing and never wants to shoot.
- Kone: crock
- Alvarez: looked good for half a game, since then not much suggesting he's first-team material. Also, a bit of a crock.
- Joel: can't catch, can't save. No command.
- McGeady: barely looks Prem-quality never mind Everton-quality.

And the loanees:

- Deulofeu: looks exciting and effective at times, at others looks like how Seamus Coleman did in his first season.
- Lukaku: the one big success story, even if his first touch is surprisingly bad. He scores goals and makes ace runs.
- Barry: looked good in the first half of the season. Looks dead tired now and is making mistakes.
- Traore: crock.


So we've got 3 out of 9 players Martinez has brought in who've been a relative success for us (Lukaku, Macca, Barry). Deulofeu hasn't had enough game-time to prove one way or the other. The other 5 haven't contributed very much at all.


The jury's out so far on Martinez's ability to bring in his own guys.
Click to expand...


I think he's played it safe in the permanent transfer market up to now. I'd like him to go out and make a statement. Whether he gets the cash is a different matter
 
Artetafan said:
Success is a trophy or europe.

We finish 7th and don't get into europe, and also don't win a trophy or win a derby, then that's a failed season.

But, you know, I happen to think Moyes failed as a manager here after he took us from a team fighting relegation to four european campaigns which I know is a minority view. It's silverware or nothing for me.

If martinez leaves this club without a trophy, imo he's failed as a manager. I don't think he will, I think if we give him 5 years, and we probably will, he'll get us that trophy and asking for one in his first year is unreasonable but I'm not going along with the neville-kenwright ethos that 7th is success, not ever.
Click to expand...

About the last half of his tenure was, easily...
 

Moyes didnt fail, he pulled a team fighting relegation to the top half of the league and into Europe, Martinez has taken a side that finished 7th, to 7th.

clap clap clap.
 

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