Roberto Martinez Shenanigans: All Reaction Here

[Allezfan]

6th or 15th and winning a cup?

Indeed, the Royle years. The first one was much more memorable.

 

[Allezfan]

Or we've swapped a quality league manager that transformed this club for a proven failure that got his team relegated.. Depends what you focus on.
I am sure Everton fans will be happier with their season than Wigan ones.
Personally I think its vital we donn't drop down the league, failing to battle for Europe, as we have quality players that simply won't stand for it and leave, also each place is worth around a mil, and each million is a mil closer to sell to survive. Sad but true.
Give me silverware and a poor league position once and I'd be happy but a couple of league finishes in the bottom half regardless of trophies and we'll lose players for less money that we can't replace, millions in prize money and be really really in the s**t.
Its horrible to have to think like that but the sad reality is that given the choice of 4th or cup and bottom half finish, i'd take 4th because we couldn't afford to be a bottom half team.

Really?

You're thinking like an everton fan, mate. Fans of crap teams don't think like that.

 

[nigelcoyb]

This "I'd rather finish 10-15 and win a trophy" thing just baffles me to no end. Not that I wouldn't make that choice if a genie showed up -- of course I would. BUT there is no choice.

Finishing 10-15th makes us less likely to win a Cup. Despite the odd Wigan win (which I know happened this year so it apparently means more than the last 10-20 Cup winners combined) the top of the table teams typically win Cups.

The extra 10-20m we get from finishing higher up helps our Cup cause. Moyes had 11 cracks at the FA Cup but if anyone thinks Everton's odds with any manager we could get of winning the FA Cup are 10%+ then they need their heads checked. Man U. haven't won for 10 years.

I'm aware some managers might prioritize Cups more than others. However no matter what attitude our manager has to Cups (bar someone who neglects to enter us in them) we have a better shot of winning one of them with consistent strong league finishes which result in tens of millions in extra revenue which means better players (and better managers/coaches/infrastructure in theory) and that all means a better chance of raising the Cup. I'd take a solid league manager who hopefully can fluke a Cup over some "Cup specialist" any day of the week.

And if you think Moyes not winning from 22 domestic chances proves anything then you need a lesson in statistics (and maybe in history too because we haven't won many Cups even when we were good/great and the league wasn't as deep).

I know I'm practically alone on this one but with all the luck of the draw stuff I say your best odds are maximizing your revenue (which means solid league finishes) and just hoping you pick up a Cup or two along the way. If you try to prioritize Cups you could still get a nightmare draw (or three bad minutes) and end up dumped out and 10m worse off because of your lousy league finish which is going to hurt your Cup chances the next year.

You talk a lot of sense in there mate the only thing is it's "accountancy/statistics/businesslike" sense as you rightly say there's no "either or" about the league/cup glory BUT emotionally EVERY club needs success and like it or not for most Evertonians that means winning something.

Kudos to Moyes for regularly getting a few places up from where finances dictate but we never went down fighting in the cups there were too many cup surrenders against all kinds over the years so the "solid league positions" become "meh".

Despite the sort of sense you rightly highlight emotionally we were moribund.

 

[hktoffee]

Personally I think its vital we donn't drop down the league, failing to battle for Europe, as we have quality players that simply won't stand for it and leave, also each place is worth around a mil, and each million is a mil closer to sell to survive. Sad but true.

Give me silverware and a poor league position once and I'd be happy, but a couple of league finishes in the bottom half regardless of trophies and we'll lose players for less money that we can't replace, millions in prize money and be really really in the s**t.

Its horrible to have to think like that but the sad reality is that given the choice of 4th or cup and bottom half finish, i'd take 4th because we couldn't afford to be a bottom half team.

If I am a PL player, my main concern is my club's league position.

 

[banno]

If I am a PL player, my main concern is my club's league position.

But your not so how would you know

 

[bourneblue]

Aye you're right the knives are out for him already, from a certain section of the Everton fan base.

 

[hktoffee]

But your not so how would you know

I didn't say I know. I said if I am a PL player, I hope my team can finish as high up as possible (league is priority).

 

[Ihaters]

Really?

You're thinking like an everton fan, mate. Fans of crap teams don't think like that.

I was hoping I got away with deleting your quote because the exact point I was making was just asked in question form.

You know what after three or four years in the premiership, those fans would be expecting to improve not to get relegated. They will be happy and gutted at the same time.
I know the cup was the greater achievement and the greater event, but I am trying to work out which was the greater emotion.. Winning the cup in 95 or the news of Mark Steins winner and that Graham Stuart goal that kept us up.
Put yourself back there and picture it not happening. The drop.. right there, I wouldn't be happy even with a cup win early in the month.

 

[Ihaters]

Aye you're right the knives are out for him already, from a certain section of the Everton fan base.

Not the case mate. Just debating whether a bottom half finish and a cup is progress or not.

 

[Allezfan]

I was hoping I got away with deleting your quote because the exact point I was making was just asked in question form.

You know what after three or four years in the premiership, those fans would be expecting to improve not to get relegated. They will be happy and gutted at the same time.
I know the cup was the greater achievement and the greater event, but I am trying to work out which was the greater emotion.. Winning the cup in 95 or the news of Mark Steins winner and that Graham Stuart goal that kept us up.
Put yourself back there and picture it not happening. The drop.. right there, I wouldn't be happy even with a cup win early in the month.

For an Everton fan, I agree.

But I know a lot of fans of yo-yo and lower league fans and honestly they view relegations as just a thing that happens.

 

[Aidey9]

Pictures from the daily mail of a lunch meeting at 3 between Kenwright and Martinez looked quite conclusive to me!. Kenwright today was either interviewed before or after the meeting today but either way, said we was to talk to Martinez in next 48 hrs!.

Yet, either hrs before or hrs later he met Martinez!. - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...enwright-London-talks-Goodison-Park-move.html

And according to sky, we want to have a manager in place by the weekend. According to that daily mail report, Kenwright left at 3 and Martinez 2 hrs later. Now i know people leave a bit after the first man, like 10, 15 mins after, but 2 hrs after?!. I think Kenwright had to be away on business or what ever and left his right hand man or whoever deals with contracts to tie up the loose ends with Martinez and thats why he left so late after.

 

[fozzy]

martinez at wembley you say!!!!!



bet he is thinking "will defo replace jags,baines and coleman as they are ****e"

 

[quasi modo]

Pictures from the daily mail of a lunch meeting at 3 between Kenwright and Martinez looked quite conclusive to me!. Kenwright today was either interviewed before or after the meeting today but either way, said we was to talk to Martinez in next 48 hrs!.

Yet, either hrs before or hrs later he met Martinez!. - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...enwright-London-talks-Goodison-Park-move.html

And according to sky, we want to have a manager in place by the weekend. According to that daily mail report, Kenwright left at 3 and Martinez 2 hrs later. Now i know people leave a bit after the first man, like 10, 15 mins after, but 2 hrs after?!. I think Kenwright had to be away on business or what ever and left his right hand man or whoever deals with contracts to tie up the loose ends with Martinez and thats why he left so late after.

Maybe Martinez has a big appetite???

 

[bourneblue]

Or bill was off elsewhere to interview another prospective manager.

 

[griffla]

I can't, i think I need counselling!! :blink:

No arguments there
Seriously, the only times under moyes that we've been in with a chance at 4th were this season just finished and the time we did it. Have you forgotten our 'traditional slow starters' tag? Everyone said that about us because we had been sh!t at the start of the season, leaving us with no chance at 4th, time after time.

My main concern about martinez is if he is able to pick out top, top class players in the market. I know Moyes didn't spend much but he realised early doors that when Bill did get the wallet out it was better for us to get 1 player of the highest possible calibre instead of 2 or 3 'squad players'.
That being said apparently fellaini told moyes about mirallas, so maybe ginger dave wasn't this all knowing super scout we remember him as.