Ronald Koeman discussion

[davek]

...oh Davek. I'm not defending the manager and I've been critical of how we play but we have a mid-table squad and at least we are picking up points. In the 2nd half of last season we were in free fall, RK has arrested that. It's dreadful to watch but we need significant change, at least let him bring in his own players before judging the Manager.

I'm naive and I don't know if you post just to get a response or you genuinely feel like you do.

The manager was brought in as a massive upgrade on what went before - someone who could get us more defensively disciplined and competitive.

Is that what you think we've got?

 

[davek]

Martinez and Koeman are operating at Man City spending level compared to Moyes, if he had the money they did he would have done even better. I must admit he was helped by the fact we were skint we didn't have the expectations we do now. Martinez's first season was probably his downfall, he exceeded his own expectations thus probably ruining whatever his initial plans were to build a team, he couldn't build slowly after that first season because of expectations. Koeman is meant to have big money to spend so he will need to make sure his signings work, and the expensive ones will need to work quickly otherwise he will probably come under more scrutiny than both the others.

Moyes' spending record should be seen in in relation to pre-2009 and post 2009. In the earliest period (which is to say the vast amount of time he was here) he enjoyed a very decent net spend. (This has been gone over in the past). Post 2009 the roof fell in and we had a fire sale - that dragged his whole net spend for the period he was here down to a couple of million on average per season.

 

[Goat]

Moyes' spending record should be seen in in relation to pre-2009 and post 2009. In the earliest period (which is to say the vast amount of time he was here) he enjoyed a very decent net spend. (This has been gone over in the past). Post 2009 the roof fell in and we had a fire sale - that dragged his whole net spend for the period he was here down to a couple of million on average per season.

13m over 11 years.

Less than Martinez spent on Niasse.

 

[hktoffee]

13m over 11 years.

Less than Martinez spent on Niasse.

RM had much more than that per season.

 

[Eggsyblueskin]

Because we had a back four and two holding CMs that worked well in his first season (39 goals conceded). The whole team doesn't have to be pack mules to get a defensive shape to the team.

It's called working as a unit , a TEAM, not being pack mules. It's what grown up managers strive to achieve, and grown up supporters expect to see.

 

[Goat]

RM had much more than that per season.

50m over 3 years.

 

[davek]

13m over 11 years.

Less than Martinez spent on Niasse.

He broke the transfer record four times.

As said, his time here early on was very decently funded. Moyes had a net spend every season between his first full season in 2002/03 to season 2008/09 (with the exception of season 2004/05 when Rooney was sold). And over the whole of that period he had a net spend of £36M.

What happened after that when we sold a lot of players has been allowed to obscure that.

Moyes got his money in his first seven seasons, dont worry about that. Probably as well funded as any team outside Arsenal, Chelsea, Man Utd, Liverpool and Spurs for most of that earlier period.

 

[DrEFC]

Deulofeu
McCarthy
Lukaku
Barry
Besic
Galloway
Lennon
Holgate
Funes Mori
Cleverley

...you think Moyes wouldn't have signed any of those players in a heartbeat if he'd have been here? Nonsense if you do.

The playing staff here are good enough to get top 7 at the very least. And they achieved higher in the past.

The fallacy about this being a poor squad that Koeman is having to struggle with is utter BS and needs putting to bed.

A poor tradesman blames their tools. That's what Koeman does. He's taking the piss on that score and charging £6M per season to have people off over it. Not happening as far as I'm concerned. He needs to prove he can coach players. I've seen absolutely zero evidence he can do that.

Moyes was after Lukaku, & Martinez got him after failing to get Ba. Wouldn't of went for Holgate, but brought in Stones? Sniveley stinks of a Moyes signing so fair enough I agree. It's not a poor squad but it is an aged squad without motivation. They have had the cuddle approach from that monumental £10million-stealing failure, Martinez. Time to see if the strict uncaring approach works. Maybe not, but ok, I'm not wetting my sheets yet. Koeman is a very lucky man to get this gig with the wages, & proposed finance to build a squad, let's see if he can get decent players in.

 

[Goat]

Moyes 13m over 11 years

17th to 4th

Martinez 50m over 3 years

6th to 13th

Koeman 0m over 0 years

11th to ???

 

[hktoffee]

Because we had a back four and two holding CMs that worked well in his first season (39 goals conceded). The whole team doesn't have to be pack mules to get a defensive shape to the team.

Ok, you bought this up again.

105 PL goals conceded in last 2 seasons. Open your eyes. What defensive shape was this? We did not even practice defending setpieces under the last manager.

 

[Goat]

He broke the transfer record four times.

As said, his time here early on was very decently funded. Moyes had a net spend every season between his first full season in 2002/03 to season 2008/09 (with the exception of season 2004/05 when Rooney was sold). And over the whole of that period he had a net spend of £36M.

What happened after that when we sold a lot of players has been allowed to obscure that.

Moyes got his money in his first seven seasons, dont worry about that. Probably as well funded as any team outside Arsenal, Chelsea, Man Utd, Liverpool and Spurs for most of that earlier period.

Stop typing lies.

13m over 11 years.

Write as much wishy washy bolloxs as you like, but please, deal only in facts.

 

[davek]

It's called working as a unit , a TEAM, not being pack mules. It's what grown up managers strive to achieve, and grown up supporters expect to see.

Grown up managers play with technique, flair and creativity. Out of their depth managers play route one.

 

[ianefc]

Moyes 13m over 11 years

17th to 4th

Martinez 50m over 3 years

6th to 13th

Koeman 0m over 0 years

11th to ???

Is that the actual net on Martinez?

He can't of spent that much?

 

[hktoffee]

50m over 3 years.

Yea. Net.

 

[davek]

Stop typing lies.

13m over 11 years.

Write as much wishy washy bolloxs as you like, but please, deal only in facts.

Go and check the figures and come back and put your own pov before you label me a liar mate. It's all there to dissect if you have the time and inclination.