Ronald Koeman discussion

[mutley]

And your point is? Reality check: we're not a top 4 team, we haven't been for decades. We're not top 6 either. West Brom and Bournemouth are there on merit - they're not automatically gash teams that we should be hammering because they're unfashionable. Gash teams get relegated.

My point was that "the rest" as you put it are [Poor language removed] this season.

 

[Ernie]

But a 4 place difference in the table. Improvement?

Of course, I couldn't say otherwise could I?

I'm just looking at the bigger picture rather than seeing us in 7th and thinking its a big deal when in reality we've won one more game than at the same point last year and have been knocked out of both cups by poor sides at home

 

[Dirty Dutch]

Do we get a 7th place finish in Jan?

You're the one who keeps telling us that at this time martinez was still in the cup last year........

 

[Ernie]

You're the one who keeps telling us that at this time martinez was still in the cup last year........

?????

 

[blue62]

Its still only a 3 point increase on the horror show that was Martinez

We have been beaten by Bournemouth/Burnley/Watford and failed to beat Swansea/Palace/Hull

If you believe the signs are there that Koeman will drive us on please tell me what they are

There is no clear evidence at all, the only thing that is evident is that the players who finished last season so poorly need to go or improve. Yesterday we were missing Gueye and Bolassie, two of RK's key signings and it showed. He may not be the messiah but he has a good track record and was a wonderful, intelligent player, the board have to back him and we have to be patient. I can remember plenty of people wanting Kendall gone in 1983.

 

[mutley]

You're the one who keeps telling us that at this time martinez was still in the cup last year........

And we were and we had something to look forward to

 

[Ernie]

There is no clear evidence at all, the only thing that is evident is that the players who finished last season so poorly need to go or improve. Yesterday we were missing Gueye and Bolassie, two of RK's key signings and it showed. He may not be the messiah but he has a good track record and was a wonderful, intelligent player, the board have to back him and we have to be patient. I can remember plenty of people wanting Kendall gone in 1983.

So I keep reading

Maybe Utd should have given Moyes more time like Ferguson

 

[Saint Domingo]

That's only happened in the last few games, We have been poor in 90% of our games even when all four of his men played

Not that poor, 7th suggests he is on the lower limit of what can be expected performance wise but at least he has us in the right half of the table. The defensive improvement is there in the league, the home record is starting to improve in the league, Williams and Gueye have probably been our best two players, Barkley's form is slowly improving. It's not great by any stretch of the imagination and the cup exits are a huge mark against him, but trying to claim we've regressed from Martinez or that nothing has changed is not borne out by the available evidence of his short tenure so far.

 

[Saint Domingo]

So I keep reading

Maybe Utd should have given Moyes more time like Ferguson

Maybe they should have, I'm sure if they'd given him Pogba Mkhitaryan Martial Ibrahimovic he could have possibly engineered an improvement in form from 7th to 6th.

 

[Ashtonian]

Yeah, if that trophy was the championship maybe. No one was winning anything meaningful with a negative net spend in those years. Moyes was probably the only reason that outside of the moneyed 6, every other premier league club has been relegated whilst we still remain as 'best of the rest'. Moyes is the reason we hadn't disappeared down the financial black hole by the time Moshiri did come along to invest us. Without Moyes all these notions of dockside stadium, director of football, joining the elite, new Lukaku contract, Schneiderlin Depay etc wouldn't even exist. Honestly in my opinion there could have been no better manager for us during that period of time than David Moyes.

Not for 11 years mate he wasn't.

For half that time absolutely, problem is accepting his time here is accepting going nowhere.

I will always maintain that the one thing holding moyes back was him. The board not backing him on the face of it was shocking and speaks volumes of all of us that we accepted that as a fan Base. But when it came to game time it was moyes fearing the other team, it was moyes getting the bottling attitude which still exists today. It was moyes not changing anything, replacing midfielders with defenders the whole time, sticking with out of form players etc.

So many games we dropped points in due to moyes approach to the game rather than the players themselves. As much as the board held moyes back investment wise, it wasn't kenwright telling the players to fear reading teams who hadn't won all season before we played them, or sitting back in a cup semi final, or fearing any club with money.

 

[Ernie]

Maybe they should have, I'm sure if they'd given him Pogba Mkhitaryan Martial Ibrahimovic he could have possibly engineered an improvement in form from 7th to 6th.

Just as we are sat 7th

The season hasn't finished mate

 

[Ernie]

Not that poor, 7th suggests he is on the lower limit of what can be expected performance wise but at least he has us in the right half of the table. The defensive improvement is there in the league, the home record is starting to improve in the league, Williams and Gueye have probably been our best two players, Barkley's form is slowly improving. It's not great by any stretch of the imagination and the cup exits are a huge mark against him, but trying to claim we've regressed from Martinez or that nothing has changed is not borne out by the available evidence of his short tenure so far.

He has 3 more points and has been knocked out of both cups

Explain how that's an improvement worth mentioning

 

[Dirty Dutch]

And we were and we had something to look forward to

And we still have plenty to look forward to.

 

[Saint Domingo]

Not for 11 years mate he wasn't.

For half that time absolutely, problem is accepting his time here is accepting going nowhere.

I will always maintain that the one thing holding moyes back was him. The board not backing him on the face of it was shocking and speaks volumes of all of us that we accepted that as a fan Base. But when it came to game time it was moyes fearing the other team, it was moyes getting the bottling attitude which still exists today. It was moyes not changing anything, replacing midfielders with defenders the whole time, sticking with out of form players etc.

So many games we dropped points in due to moyes approach to the game rather than the players themselves. As much as the board held moyes back investment wise, it wasn't kenwright telling the players to fear reading teams who hadn't won all season before we played them, or sitting back in a cup semi final, or fearing any club with money.

You are expecting miracles of him. Take a club from relegation, overhaul the squad on a negative net spend and then win trophies against teams splashing billions around (who are also taking your best players). Yeah he had some bad traits, but I'd rather fans were moaning that he bottled an FA cup semi than moaning about his O Neill or Bruce or Pardew or Curbishley or Hodgson, or whatever other clown we could have got in instead, took us down and it was inevitable because every team in the league was outspending us.

 

[Joey66]

So I keep reading

Maybe Utd should have given Moyes more time like Ferguson

Really hardly proved himself else where since has he other than make money!