Ronald Koeman discussion

[banno]

Hes not won anything in England yet and even that aggressiveness can backfire in the modern game - see Mourinho or Van Gaal.

Mourinho and Van Gaal!! Really. I am sure they have won things in England. I also remember Alex Ferguson absolutely slaughtering the Aberdeen players on TV straight after a match at Hampden Park to the extent that he had lost it. Aberdeen had minutes before just won the Scottish Cup.

We have a manager who is honest and open and tells it how it is. We now know his thoughts and are not 2nd guessing. He is like reading a match report in the paper....not holding back and more importantly its his opinion that counts. The players mettle will either make them become better players with criticism from the man that matters or will shrink away like a child. Koeman is the iron rod whilst the other coaches/staff can have kind words for the weaker players.

 

[jceverton]

Because he made them winners. Might be a different matter to listen to Mickey Thomas, Alan Biley, Billy Wright etc. Howard was ruthless especially when starting out at Everton. All managers need it and Koeman has it. No sentiment needed...the club comes first not the emotions of players. They represent our club and should be tough enough mentally to take anything thrown at them. Koeman has only piped up about Barkley being at an age where he should be realising his potential and pointed out what we the fans have been saying all along about losing possession. Naisse was ousted out of the team immediately.....isn't that what we wanted or did we want Naisse to continue weakening the team in case he may come good in the long term. I admire Koeman for his honesty and if the fans and players don't like it then they need to get a thicker skin.

No it wouldn't, Mickey Thomas speaks well of Kendall calling him a gentleman and being right to do what he did. You seem to be confusing being a winner, being ruthless with acting tough in public and slagging your players off. They are two different things. Koeman managerial record isn't great, he's not a top manager and I think you can see why when he conducts himself like he does in public. I've no problem him getting rid of Niasse but the way he's done it is poor management. You can still be ruthless and act like a gent and Kendall is one of the best examples of this.

 

[kenada_blue]

Mourinho and Van Gaal!! Really. I am sure they have won things in England. I also remember Alex Ferguson absolutely slaughtering the Aberdeen players on TV straight after a match at Hampden Park to the extent that he had lost it. Aberdeen had minutes before just won the Scottish Cup.

We have a manager who is honest and open and tells it how it is. We now know his thoughts and are not 2nd guessing. He is like reading a match report in the paper....not holding back and more importantly its his opinion that counts. The players mettle will either make them become better players with criticism from the man that matters or will shrink away like a child. Koeman is the iron rod whilst the other coaches/staff can have kind words for the weaker players.

Ferguson had the respect due to the titles he won, how he dealt with players (squad players made to feel like game changers, protection of key players). You're more likely remember him saying a ball smashing Van Persie in the face "could've killed him" rather than him saying Phil Neville wasnt "good enough" on TV.

The more money you spend, the more the players ego rises. Mourinho had is at Real and at Chelsea, Van Gaal had it at United. When Mourinho came out and said some players aren't working for him on TV, that was the end.

Its fresh and feels better Koeman coming out and saying these things, but he'll also be quickly going down the route of having to deliver on what hes saying before some named player start getting ichy feet - just like at Saints.

 

[banno]

No confusion here mate. Billy Wright the nephew of the great Tommy Wright put a few pounds on so was kicked out sharpish for example. Howard was a gent in public but he had to be a beast behind closed doors to get his success eventually. Koeman is up front and will answer questions honestly. I wouldn't call it slagging off I would call in constructive criticism.

You are saying that to be open and critical of players you have to have earned the right to by being successful....I don't understand that. Make no difference that Koeman has not been successful as of yet because that's not the point. The point is are our fans happy that he is honest and open and kept up to speed with his thoughts or are fans happy with the BS press conferences which is like question time and keep the fans more in the dark. I now know that Koeman wants more players in more players out, is not giving free rides to the players and has a high standard that his players must aspire to. I didn't know this with any of the other managers. Long may he continue to use constructive criticism and keep us all in the picture.

 

[davek]

Because he made them winners. Might be a different matter to listen to Mickey Thomas, Alan Biley, Billy Wright etc. Howard was ruthless especially when starting out at Everton. All managers need it and Koeman has it. No sentiment needed...the club comes first not the emotions of players. They represent our club and should be tough enough mentally to take anything thrown at them. Koeman has only piped up about Barkley being at an age where he should be realising his potential and pointed out what we the fans have been saying all along about losing possession. Naisse was ousted out of the team immediately.....isn't that what we wanted or did we want Naisse to continue weakening the team in case he may come good in the long term. I admire Koeman for his honesty and if the fans and players don't like it then they need to get a thicker skin.

Tell you what I dont recall HK doing in his early days here: using the squad's merits or otherwise as a way of deflecting attention away from his own reversals.

Koeman so obviously weaponises his assessment of the players he has to hand and he does so very publicly.

 

[Eggsyblueskin]

No it wouldn't, Mickey Thomas speaks well of Kendall calling him a gentleman and being right to do what he did. You seem to be confusing being a winner, being ruthless with acting tough in public and slagging your players off. They are two different things. Koeman managerial record isn't great, he's not a top manager and I think you can see why when he conducts himself like he does in public. I've no problem him getting rid of Niasse but the way he's done it is poor management. You can still be ruthless and act like a gent and Kendall is one of the best examples of this.

Ultimately you clearly dislike our manager and nothing anyone says will convince you otherwise,which is fine it's all subjective and none of us have to like our manager. However you do tend ,as a result of your evident dislike ,to exaggerate everything he says or does to reinforce your negative opinion of him. Personally I am enjoying his style of management. His managerial record stands up well to the other managers on our apparent summer shortlist with the advantage of PL experience. He is certainly abrasive but he also displays a wry sense of humour. Above all I believe he is honest and will fight his corner. I suspect when you win praise from him ,as many of our players have publicly, it is valued.
As with all managerial styles some players will thrive some will not and leave. We can only begin to fully judge him and his style when he has had a reasonable amount of time to mould his team.

 

[balggy]

Just saying. I reject the belief those two know more than me. They lumped £27M on Bolasie, so that tells me they are far from being spot on in their judgement.

I know what I know. I get plenty wrong but I have faith in my own judgement on players.

You reject that Ronald Koeman, a man who in his prime was considered one of the best defenders in the world, a fantastic reading of the game, a champions league and European championship winner knows more than you?

A manager who is managed the big three clubs in Holland, winning titles with Ajax and PSV and guided Southampton to 6 & 7 place finishes despite having his squad decimated every season. You don't think he knows more than you?

You reject that Steve Walsh, a highly respected football man who whilst at Chelsea scouted Zola, Essien, Drogba and whilst at Lecester Kante, Mahrez and Vardy knows more than you?


What are your credentials? I guess you have the confidence if nothing else.

 

[banno]

Ferguson had the respect due to the titles he won, how he dealt with players (squad players made to feel like game changers, protection of key players). You're more likely remember him saying a ball smashing Van Persie in the face "could've killed him" rather than him saying Phil Neville wasnt "good enough" on TV.

The more money you spend, the more the players ego rises. Mourinho had is at Real and at Chelsea, Van Gaal had it at United. When Mourinho came out and said some players aren't working for him on TV, that was the end.

Its fresh and feels better Koeman coming out and saying these things, but he'll also be quickly going down the route of having to deliver on what hes saying before some named player start getting ichy feet - just like at Saints.

See what you are saying but there is a flip side. The hair dryer treatment etc. Ferguson was ruthless before he was successful and was not shy of criticism in public...before he won anything in England.

His openness is fresh and good to hear and Yes it may put more pressure on him to come up with the goods but surely that is his aim. If he fails he knows and the whole world knows he will be replaced. He is not kidding himself and he is not kidding the players into believing they are world beaters. He is saying to the players that they are doing well at this and that but you must improve on this and that and there is nothing wrong with that. There are some players he has looked at and just thinks they are not good enough for him so they have no future at the club...again nothing wrong in that. The saints players itchy feet were mainly because they had improved as players and much bigger teams came in for them. That is a problem we have always had and still will unless we show the ambition and actually get in the mix.

Its all opinions but I for one love it at the moment as I know what he is feeling and what he wants and currently like us he is not happy with performances and certain players, therefore he will replace and bring in players that should make us better.

 

[davek]

You reject that Ronald Koeman, a man who in his prime was considered one of the best defenders in the world, a fantastic reading of the game, a champions league and European championship winner knows more than you?

A manager who is managed the big three clubs in Holland, winning titles with Ajax and PSV and guided Southampton to 6 & 7 place finishes despite having his squad decimated every season. You don't think he knows more than you?

You reject that Steve Walsh, a highly respected football man who whilst at Chelsea scouted Zola, Essien, Drogba and whilst at Lecester Kante, Mahrez and Vardy knows more than you?


What are your credentials? I guess you have the confidence if nothing else.

Yes.

 

[banno]

Tell you what I dont recall HK doing in his early days here: using the squad's merits or otherwise as a way of deflecting attention away from his own reversals.

Koeman so obviously weaponises his assessment of the players he has to hand and he does so very publicly.

I think the magnificent 7 was a round about way....don't you? We had so many ins and outs in his early days.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Yes.

That's plainly deluded if that was anything other than tongue in cheek Dave.

 

[DrEFC]

Yes.

lol You tell 'em. Who should Ron bring in this window, as he's not going to get sacked obv. I mean if you had to pick on or two game changers?

 

[jceverton]

Ultimately you clearly dislike our manager and nothing anyone says will convince you otherwise,which is fine it's all subjective and none of us have to like our manager. However you do tend ,as a result of your evident dislike ,to exaggerate everything he says or does to reinforce your negative opinion of him. Personally I am enjoying his style of management. His managerial record stands up well to the other managers on our apparent summer shortlist with the advantage of PL experience. He is certainly abrasive but he also displays a wry sense of humour. Above all I believe he is honest and will fight his corner. I suspect when you win praise from him ,as many of our players have publicly, it is valued.
As with all managerial styles some players will thrive some will not and leave. We can only begin to fully judge him and his style when he has had a reasonable amount of time to mould his team.

Some fair points and I wasn't a big fan before he was appointed based on his track record but I was prepared to be won over. The way he's conducted himself publicly is poor and it has worsened my opinion of him. I just don't think in the long run that you get anywhere by publically slagging off players and criticising others whilst generally failing to take any responsibility. I also don't think that's the way a successful Everton manager should operate.

I don't think I've exaggerated everything he says or does to make a point and that's an easy way of dismissing valid criticism. At the end of the day his results will determine which view of his managerial approach is correct.

 

[davek]

I think the magnificent 7 was a round about way....don't you? We had so many ins and outs in his early days.

But he bought them. And letting them go was not a public execution.

Koeman and Kendall - chalk and cheese.

 

[davek]

That's plainly deluded if that was anything other than tongue in cheek Dave.

How anyone here could not trust their own views on players and instead defer to someone else (including managers) is alien to me. I could give a flying one if Koeman thought differently about a player than I do. Same went for Martinez and Moyes when they were here.