Ronald Koeman discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.

Mikey_Fitzgerald said:
At the end of the day, we don't need Dave's "education" nor do we need his thought control

He may be a tactics fascist out for Koeman because Koeman doesn't have the team playing the togger he likes, but that doesn't mean we have to be like that as well

Yes, ideally we'd all like Everton to playing amazing football and winning every week, but at the end of the day we support Everton and we want to see Everton win, and if that means the football has to be a bit more direct and less aesthetically pleasing for the time being then so be it

We're not going to the theatre, we're going the match, and we want the boys in sumptuous blue to win. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that
Click to expand...
All for one, one for all
Everton's the team that plays
beautiful football.
 
davek said:
All for one, one for all
Everton's the team that plays
beautiful football.
Click to expand...
Did a poll last year, vast majority of supporters on here would rather us get results without playing 'beautiful', than watch us play pretty but fail.
Koeman is what we need, and he's what we have.
 

bluestevon said:
It's a secret code the media use mate in Britain, when they use terms like great football, best team to watch, attractive open attacking play. Etc
It's nearly always used in connection with teams that score lots but have a woeful defence and a soft centre to them, because ultimately what makes a team exciting to watch is for the general Womble watching out there is a team that can be battered themselves or batter and often involved in weird end to end games.
See city this season, arsenal for the last ten years, the rs since Rogers and moreso now etc us under Bobby

Meanwhilst a very high scoring Chelsea team that won the league the other year wasn't labelled like that, they got called professional, workmanlike , methodical etc.
Click to expand...
I thought this myself at the time.
 
You would think from some of the discussions on here that under Martinez we were playing football akin to Ajax in the early 70s and under Koeman we are an expensively assembled John Beck outfit. It's not the case in either direction. We are more direct under Koeman than Martinez which many would argue suits the league more and our most valuable asset in Lukaku. It's working at the moment, and it's hardly a horror show to watch. Let's enjoy the winning
 
bicycleheader said:
Again the ball repeatedly going out wide then all the way back to defence is not the tactic though, it's the tactic being implemented poorly and yes it is dull. And as you said earlier lots of factors like player confidence and form affect that. Our movement has been atrocious for much of this and the last two seasons. hOpefully permanently improving right now with fresh faces.

On your point about the meme, you are right but it's not just a problem in that discussion in particular. It's a problem in football discussion in general. There's good and bad from the Martinez years but it's all been boiled down into constantly repeated soundbites. It's being done with Koeman already. Discussion over his reluctance to use youth team players has already become "he used Davies......So you were wrong" or "he should have done it earlier, so I'm still right"...And there's little tolerance of the others point. You'll see sensible reasoned posts get passed over because it's easier for some to jump on some simple post that they don't agree with.

Anyways it's the way of football fans and forums. You could probably already predict some of the Koeman arguments that will come about after he leaves.
Click to expand...

On the first paragraph, I think that's a really fair point. The tactic wasn't to deliberatly bore us to death, but the implementation did, and there are probably multiple factors at play.

On the second paragraph, I accept that that the meme isn't exclusive to this point, but I wasn't suggesting it was, however that was the point under discussion at the time.

I just wanted it highlighted that branding the discussion as "total football vs long ball football" doesn't reflect the reality.

As we know, when people repeat a lie often enough, people engage with the lie, rather than call it out, which ends up giving validity to it.

Third paragraph, completely agree.

Nice to have a reasonable conversation, but feel that very soon we should start insulting each other and disagreeing with every reasonable point, just for the sake of it.
 

Zezti said:
Did a poll last year, vast majority of supporters on here would rather us get results without playing 'beautiful', than watch us play pretty but fail.
Koeman is what we need, and he's what we have.
Click to expand...
Really don't get why these are seen as opposites. The best Everton teams I've seen have played great football and been winners. There's no contradiction in demanding both.
 
The reason we beat City was simple, Barca style of football doesn't work in England. We simply sat back let them have the ball in the own half, then pressed the defence at the right times and that's were goal 1 and 4 came from, instead of row Z they try and pass their way out and as we know, it doesn't work
 
MrGrumpy said:
The reason we beat City was simple, Barca style of football doesn't work in England. We simply sat back let them have the ball in the own half, then pressed the defence at the right times and that's were goal 1 and 4 came from, instead of row Z they try and pass their way out and as we know, it doesn't work
Click to expand...

I don't think it works anywhere anymore. Even Barca have jibbed it a bit. It had it's time for sure but seems, thankfully, it was a bit of a fad that was quickly worked out by opponents.

Basically if you don't have Xavi or Iniesta it doesn't work.
 
jceverton said:
Really don't get why these are seen as opposites. The best Everton teams I've seen have played great football and been winners. There's no contradiction in demanding both.
Click to expand...
Well yeah, the ideal situation for everyone would be to see Everton win every match while playing breathtaking football for the full 90 mins. The poll was about what you would rather see if you had to see one of the two - an unsightly performance but positive result or a good performance with an underwhelming result. Last 2 years we had a lot of the latter, this year we're seeing more of the former.

https://www.grandoldteam.com/forum/threads/performance-vs-results.85623/
 

Status
Not open for further replies.

Welcome

Join Grand Old Team to get involved in the Everton discussion. Signing up is quick, easy, and completely free.

Register

Shop

Back
Top