Err, Koeman lads.....
Thanks to him Everton are now Apu's favourite squadron
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Thanks to him Everton are now Apu's favourite squadron
MikeH72
Player Valuation: £100m
The differences is that Mikey presents his opinions as exactly that, and doesn't preach them as facts trying to belittle anyone who disagrees.
I for one am excited to see what the future brings under Koeman when he's shaped the squad he wants.
Jamo Martinez
Player Valuation: £70m
Sorry. I thought the original post was a wind up post and as much a part of the reason this thread goes off the rails as the one poster a lot of these posters try to blame. I can understand I should have left it after a couple replies though. Soz
You are right in that some posts are put as fact and 100% correct, and I understand how it annoys people but at this stage I really think there's a solid group of posters who perpetuate this problem with the way they write now too and the rest of the forum has to read the pages and pages of it. I definitely don't see it as a one poster thing.
Koeman isn't even that interesting to warrant so much debate! He seems an ok manager at least, possibly very good. He has given us some awful performances but lately there is something to get behind. A reasonably solid choice for manager, whom I imagine won't get to stay too long under this new regime if he ain't up to it.
You obviously haven't had a conversation with Mikey about Shane Duffy. I honestly thought he was going to catch the first plane to Ireland and murder my family
Agree with this. The other thing here though is I think there's a danger that we romanticise the football that we've played over the last couple of years. Sure there was fewer long balls, and probably a larger average number of passes per game, but some of that passing was mind-numbingly ineffectual, and as boring as watching any "long-ball" team from the bottom half of the league.
As a comparison see our game v city last week; there was a couple of points were they had the ball for 5 minutes at a time, but didn't get out their own half - awful to watch your team have 70% of the ball, and no decent efforts to show for it.
There's a 'sweet spot' between possession based football, direct football, aggressive pressing, good shape etc, but ultimately, for me, 3 points is the measure.
Edit: and Koeman's currently doing a good job on that measure - (Soz for off topic Mods)
MrGrumpy
Player Valuation: £50m
Your obviously not an Everton fan as every post is negative, go away...Mods ban this guy already
I think the point is more the overall aim for how the team should play. Obviously the last two seasons were pretty crap, and the possession football often very badly implemented but I personally would have preferred another manager who kept the basic aim of a team who wants the ball and mainly use it on the ground, whilst kicking the players up the arse and sorting the defensive side.
Its understandable if some fans fear a return to the more direct Moyes model as that was a long period for the club with only brief patches of what I'd call decent football overall. IMO
Having said all that I'm definitely less worried about what Koeman will bring to the performances and style right now, whilst still not being so crazy about him. he will rightly get the time to show us.
toffeeblue9
Player Valuation: £35m
Finally blocked davek today as I think he's on a wind-up, isn't the remotest bit objective about Koeman and ruins good discussion
So back on subject, Koeman is doing alright so far. Horrible spell in the middle of a good start and good recent spell, but I want to see less of the horrible aimless long ball stuff that was going on in the middle of his spell so far and I would hope that by Christmas and having had 3 transfer windows, we would be up there along with the current top 6, making it a proper "top 7". I'm not asking for a top 4 spot straight away, but I'd hope that by the time his initial 3 year deal is up (assuming he stays to see it out, which isn't nailed on), we would be competing for a top 4 spot. If he's able to add a cup at any time in between that (and granted, they can be a bit of a lottery, so judging someone on that can be a tad unfair), that would be lovely. I'd quite also like some European football in there. Don't care what anyone says about the merits of The Europa League (they don't feel the same way we seem to do about in Spain etc), some of the best memories I've had in recent years have been following Everton away and there's not much better than Everton in Europe.
That's my wishlist, at the moment I have faith in Koeman that he can deliver it
So back on subject, Koeman is doing alright so far. Horrible spell in the middle of a good start and good recent spell, but I want to see less of the horrible aimless long ball stuff that was going on in the middle of his spell so far and I would hope that by Christmas and having had 3 transfer windows, we would be up there along with the current top 6, making it a proper "top 7". I'm not asking for a top 4 spot straight away, but I'd hope that by the time his initial 3 year deal is up (assuming he stays to see it out, which isn't nailed on), we would be competing for a top 4 spot. If he's able to add a cup at any time in between that (and granted, they can be a bit of a lottery, so judging someone on that can be a tad unfair), that would be lovely. I'd quite also like some European football in there. Don't care what anyone says about the merits of The Europa League (they don't feel the same way we seem to do about in Spain etc), some of the best memories I've had in recent years have been following Everton away and there's not much better than Everton in Europe.
That's my wishlist, at the moment I have faith in Koeman that he can deliver it
Little Ralphy
Player Valuation: £15m
Good post.
I think the difference can be down to where you watch the game as well. Outside of England, fans are used to a slower paced game, largely because their climate has dictated as much over the years and they accept games will slow down and change pace throughout.
Over here, we haven't had the same kind of climate and fans have every right to expect a higher paced game. If you watch on tv, you can put up with passing for passings sake, as you're comfy at home and can keep an eye on other stuff at the same time, half the time you're watching a replay of the good bits while the players are passing it around the back four.
But if you're at the match, especially Goodison, you want to have something to get behind. That slow possession based football doesn't get people out of their seats. People start to get excited as Coleman gets the ball by the corner flag, but then it ends up back with our centre half, and we start again to a chorus of groans. Some of the atmosphere's over the last few years have been horrendous. That's when people start to get on player's backs as well.
Goodison is at it's best when it's hostile and the fans have something to get behind. The faster paced, more direct style we've had over the last few home games, gives the fans something to get behind, and it's no coincidence that the atmospheres have picked up. We know if Coleman gets the ball in that corner now, it's likely we're going to see them at least try and have an attempt on goal! So the groans are slowly fading and people are able to get more emotionally involved in the game.
At the end of the day it's all about those 3 points.
MrGrumpy
Player Valuation: £50m
Why is Mourinho the most sort after manager in the world? He's a winner and he wins no matter what, he doesn't play good football, he plays winning football.
Now let's compare him to Wenger, plays the best football in the league, won the league 10-15 years ago refuses to change his tactics and is neive.
Who would you rather have as manager?
Koeman's building a squad and team, he's stopping the defence from coinciding 2-3 goals every game. An we've started scoring 8 goals for 0 against in the last few league games
Now let's compare him to Wenger, plays the best football in the league, won the league 10-15 years ago refuses to change his tactics and is neive.
Who would you rather have as manager?
Koeman's building a squad and team, he's stopping the defence from coinciding 2-3 goals every game. An we've started scoring 8 goals for 0 against in the last few league games
Yeah, take your point about overall style, but I've thought since the outset, that Koeman's style isn't about directing players to lump it upfield as the attacking strategy; rather, a lot of our long balls have been when defenders are put under pressure, they're playing safety first, and clearing the lines.
Now, I put some of that down to Koeman instructing them not to take stupid chances unnecessarily, which I'm all for (as we lost too many goals previously due to this), and I put some of it down to individual player confidence, and concern over making a crucial mistake, so they take the safe option - again, see some of City's horrendous risk-taking when we played them.
I did some stats collation on this recently, which I'll post up here later, on long ball frequency, and by and large it's been consistent at around 5-6% of our completed passes and around 10-11% of the attempted passes (from memory - that could be wrong); the notable exceptions have been Liverpool and Man City (both Games).
It should also be said, that we have, at times, played some ace stuff this season, which I would expect to increase, if we continue our good run, and our players gain a bit of confidence.
vintage-toffees
Player Valuation: £10m
From my seat the the improvement is clear as day to see stronger fitter than in last 3 years stopped shipping goals and scoring later in games to kill games off .
As a watch it's a million times better than not wanting to go in the ground when you hear kone is starting again and the dead wood being bombed out in quick time is a sign this fella is on the right track .
As a watch it's a million times better than not wanting to go in the ground when you hear kone is starting again and the dead wood being bombed out in quick time is a sign this fella is on the right track .
toffeeblue9
Player Valuation: £35m
It's a good point this TBF
I was a big Martinez advocate for longer than most but I said that our fans would never create an atmosphere based on that kind of football - his 1st season was still very sterile at times, but people forget it because we were mostly very good.
The atmosphere at Goodison for the following two years was generally terrible though (and outright hostile when things started to go badly)
Going back further to Moyes - the type of football he played was the kind that will get your typical English football fan invested in the game and vocal, for all his faults - players winning challenges etc is something we appreciate in England.
The challenge for Koeman is to take the best bits from both of our previous two managers - nobody wants to see Wimbledon-esque football, but equally the crowd will never get invested in the kind of slow, predictable, sterile passing game that we played at times under Martinez - it isn't in our DNA. And, no matter what anyone tells me, I firmly believe that we get better results when the atmosphere gets better - whether or not there's a chicken and egg debate to be had there, I don't know.
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