Ronald Koeman discussion

[Groucho]

Why do you care what i think so much?

Enjoy yourself, knock yourself out on it.

You just cant evangelise about it to me, that's all. There's no converts to be had here. I'll reach my own decision on Koeman in good time. Recent signs are much better than earlier ones, as playing decent football is the key for me. Green shoots? Maybe. Let's see.

And I think that's where you differ from many mate.

For me, as important as sexy football is, winning is key for me. Nice playing comes (a very very close) second.

I don't want a Pulis/Allardyce "long ball using massive grocks" set up, that's not what I mean - a mixture of both is obviously the ideal. But winning has to come first.

Also, when going forward I reckon we do actually do it in style currently mate.

 

[robbo30efc]

Garbage Dave. Barkley was superb yesterday, tracking back making clean challenges, winning the ball and set up attacking plays off the back of it. His all round game has improved, he's no longer given licence to stroll around letting players run off him.

dont feed him mate. he wont have seen any of the above

 

[Groucho]

Polite reminder to all to stop talking about Dave. He will rein it in.

It's a Koeman thread, not a Davek thread.

Argue the point, not the poster.

Thank you.

 

[Tigger]

Polite reminder to all to stop talking about Dave. He will rein it in.

It's a Koeman thread, not a Davek thread.

Argue the point, not the poster.

Thank you.

You could be on to something there. Somewhere to go for a sensible debate with everyone's favourite poster. People would still cry arse about him in his own thread.

 

[Blue Cheese]

Seems to have got Ross playing more consistently lately, albeit a bit of flair lost, Barkley looks like some pressure has been lifted, whether that's Davies and lookman taking some heat off him I don't know but he looks like he is enjoying himself again.

 

[BlueToff]

And I think that's where you differ from many mate.

For me, as important as sexy football is, winning is key for me. Nice playing comes (a very very close) second.

I don't want a Pulis/Allardyce "long ball using massive grocks" set up, that's not what I mean - a mixture of both is obviously the ideal. But winning has to come first.

Also, when going forward I reckon we do actually do it in style currently mate.

100% Grouch

Koeman's 'style' was and never will be 'long ball'. He likes his forwards to work hard and press high, and have a high-energetic midfield to push up as well. Win the ball back and play nice togger in proper areas.

We will and have play it out from the back - Koeman was furious at Williams when he started going long all the time the other day - but we still need some additions in the defence to allow us to play with a 4 at the back rather than having to stick with a 3 all the time.

It's just not as reliant on possession. And possession-based football has never guaranteed anything in this league, ultimately. Even Pep is finding that out to an extent and is actually adjusting accordingly.

Managers like Rodgers and Martinez couldn't adjust quickly enough to adapt when they got figured out.

At the moment, we're playing well and we're probably where we should be. Though despite our crap form for 10 games we've never dropped out of the top half, hardly ever been below 7th place.

Koeman doesn't 'accept' second best. He's a very demanding manager, and whether that is purely down to his own self-goals, I couldn't care less, as he's a manager who is going to take this club back to where we need to be to build to be the club we all want us to be again - title contenders.

Whether he's the man to see that to fruition (e.g. Poch at Spurs) or whether he moves on once we're a stable top-seven

 

[MikeH72]

You could be on to something there. Somewhere to go for a sensible debate with everyone's favourite poster. People would still cry arse about him in his own thread.

In here please.
https://www.grandoldteam.com/forum/threads/davek.93477/

 

[bluestevon]

Seems to have got Ross playing more consistently lately, albeit a bit of flair lost, Barkley looks like some pressure has been lifted, whether that's Davies and lookman taking some heat off him I don't know but he looks like he is enjoying himself again.

If that is Ross with flair lost then i welcome the backheel flick assists every week in his lack of flair game mate

As for why he's looking much improved, look at the man whose managing him, training him and who has got him doing things very few predicted he was ever gonna be capable of doing (pressing, working hard off the ball, tackling, and sticking himself on the line for the team) - all thats down to the way koeman has cpoached and handled him and got him to finally 'man up'

The lack of confidenc ecould all have stemmed from a lack of belief in his ability to do any of that defensive work and undemrined everything else, now it actuially seems for the very first time like he's on rout to becoming an all around centre midfielder

 

[bluestevon]

100% Grouch

Koeman's 'style' was and never will be 'long ball'. He likes his forwards to work hard and press high, and have a high-energetic midfield to push up as well. Win the ball back and play nice togger in proper areas.

We will and have play it out from the back - Koeman was furious at Williams when he started going long all the time the other day - but we still need some additions in the defence to allow us to play with a 4 at the back rather than having to stick with a 3 all the time.

It's just not as reliant on possession. And possession-based football has never guaranteed anything in this league, ultimately. Even Pep is finding that out to an extent and is actually adjusting accordingly.

Managers like Rodgers and Martinez couldn't adjust quickly enough to adapt when they got figured out.

At the moment, we're playing well and we're probably where we should be. Though despite our crap form for 10 games we've never dropped out of the top half, hardly ever been below 7th place.

Koeman doesn't 'accept' second best. He's a very demanding manager, and whether that is purely down to his own self-goals, I couldn't care less, as he's a manager who is going to take this club back to where we need to be to build to be the club we all want us to be again - title contenders.

Whether he's the man to see that to fruition (e.g. Poch at Spurs) or whether he moves on once we're a stable top-seven

All good points mate, think a curious thing though is that basically everyone above us (even those on good form) are looking weaker than they did first half of the season, we are looking stronger and fitter by the week, gonna be an interesting last few months to the season for sure

 

[jinkyali]

Polite reminder to all to stop talking about Dave. He will rein it in.

It's a Koeman thread, not a Davek thread.

Argue the point, not the poster.

Thank you.

The point changes by the day tho !

 

[brieverton]

Well I would certainly rather a stronger 2nd half than 1st half of the season, the key, as we all know, is consistency and getting results when not playing well.

Our strong finish to games is particularly encouraging and shows us at or near the level of fitness we need for the more intensive pressing game that Koeman favours. We should, with a few more additions, be properly ready for the off next season in that respect.

Like some others, I have been lucky enough to see us win titles so not getting at all carried away albeit our run of results has been encouraging.

I think the test in this league is to put a run together of 12-15 games unbeaten, in that spell you would have to get the odd away win or 3, and come out with results against higher-placed sides.

We need to maintain our home form, and not be happy with away draws, I'm not saying Koeman is, but as a whole, the squad have to deliver more on the road.

We also have plenty of opportunities coming up to end our jinx at one of the Sky 4 grounds, I want to see us go to win at these venues and not play for a heroic draw.

Plenty to play for between now and May, especially with the RS crash and burn. Middlesborough next is exactly the sort of game where we should go out and show the difference between us and them, it would be great to see Lukaku maintain his form at such a high level between now and May, that alone would see us comfortably above 60 points.

 

[davek]

And I think that's where you differ from many mate.

For me, as important as sexy football is, winning is key for me. Nice playing comes (a very very close) second.

I don't want a Pulis/Allardyce "long ball using massive grocks" set up, that's not what I mean - a mixture of both is obviously the ideal. But winning has to come first.

Also, when going forward I reckon we do actually do it in style currently mate.

That's all I'm saying mate. Win and win style. There's no excuse not to try and do both if it's at all possible. And teams should be set up to win by playing in as stylish a manner possible. I do laugh at the people who trundle out the stuff about "i just want to win, I dont care about anything else". What an attitude to have. This is an entertainment too at the end of the day isn't it? Yes, be competitive, but as I've said before: the best teams ever at club or national level have almost ALWAYS been the best in the business at entertaining. Try and think of some that haven't and they are stand outs because they are exceptions to the rule. The Arsenal team under Graham or that Leicester team last season are good examples but are buried under a mountain of fine football exponents who lift the big trophies.

Pragmatism? Yes, but that just means joining the ranks of the exponents of fine football, because that is what gets the job done.

 

[davek]

Polite reminder to all to stop talking about Dave. He will rein it in.

It's a Koeman thread, not a Davek thread.

Argue the point, not the poster.

Thank you.

Thanks Groucho.

 

[Thomasc]

100% agree...ive just gone through the last 8 or 9 pages with posters not even trying to have a conversation, debate or even make a point...they're either slating you or trying to belittle you.

Absolutely pathetic.

I have him on ignore now, so won't be bothering again, like you say, it's pointless and a tad predictable. My last word on it though is it is self inflicted and childish and a very sad way for a grown man to live his life. There is little point in debating, some of the absolute garbage he types is so ridiculous it is non debatable.

A bit like you with your blind hatred for Koeman, but at least I get that you are honest and open about it.

This is an Everton forum though, so when posters are so anti- Everton about something, you are going to get slated.

99% of the forum want to see Everton do well. The likes of you and the aforementioned come across as you would prefer this not to be the case, as your ridiculous stance on the manager is more important to you and you want to be proven right if he fails.

 

[blueblue]

Last season we were reasonably solid up to Christmas and just fell apart after that.
I think the manager used the first four months of this season to assess the squad and that led to some disappointing results.

The recent transfer window has shown that he knows now the players he wants to keep and to work with and results are definitely improving.

I think RK is a results manager. I think that for him winning is more important than style although in the first half against Bournemouth there was plenty of top class football. I think most of us can live with regularly winning games.