Ronald Koeman discussion

[Thomasc]

Just interested in how criticism can be aimed at big Ron when he played less long balls per game than Bob

Ok, but you have already stated on several occasions that he talks utter gash and is clearly on the wind up.

So just curious why you are asking him direct questions that's all.

It's like a form of human live bear baiting

 

[davek]

I see it differently. I don't think Koeman likes hoofball any more than you (or I). Koeman inherited a squad that was unfit and lacking confidence. As a team we were unable to affect a coordinated midfield press and incapable of reliably playing through an opposition's. Koeman identified these weaknesses and adjusted tactics accordingly. He focussed on improving fitness, looked to sign players better suited to a more possession based, high(er) pressing style, and offloaded players that he thought couldn't make the transition.

Think we'll see less and less route one as he moulds the squad to his liking. He strikes me as a pragmatist, willing to do whatever needs to be done to deliver results while building a foundation for more attractive, winning football.

Tbf I had similar concerns as yourself early on, including being less than enamoured with some of his public comments. But you can't judge his relationship with players based of public soundbites. He spends a lot of time communicating with the squad in private and all indications suggest they are responding positively.

Any decent manager (not just in football) knows you can't be everyone's mate, you need to establish an appropriate professional relationship or things can go bad very quickly (I know from experience). I'm more concerned with the stick our lads get from the fans rather than criticism from Koeman. Joel didn't react the way he did v Bournemouth because of anything Koeman did, in fact I wouldn't be surprised if some of Koeman's comments were for the fans benefit as much as the players.

COYB

EDIT: Why are my posts still under moderation? This is the 8th one.

Good post, but I think it maybe portrays all the decisions made by Koeman so far as being pre-planned and co-ordinated - that he was the ultimate pragmatist who took what was lying around when he arrived and moulded it with his emerging method.

I don't buy that. I think he showed impatience in the first few months by playing players in a way that failed to use their talents to get on the ball and combine. He forced a way of playing onto this group that was alien to them - one emphasising physicality and lots of pace and eschewing any attempt to consistently dominate the possession and opposition. It led to a sterile lump it long game typified by a deep played ball out from the back to Bolaisie...which seemed our only, highly predictable, tactic in games. Since the Watford game in December - notwithstanding a few lapses - he recognised that until he gets his own players in he must use these players in the fashion they previously played in. In other words, his pragmatism only displayed itself at that latter point. It took four and a half months for the penny to drop and for him to drop his attempt to mould material to a shape they were incapable of bending to.

After this summer and he gets more of his own players in and a preseason, then I believe we'll see a switch to his preferred way of playing - which emphasises pace and athleticism and we'll then see what Koeman is about. What we see now is NOT a Koeman team playing Koeman football.

 

[TheCount]

How am I doing gaffer?

 

[Barnfred 55]

Good post, but I think it maybe portrays all the decisions made by Koeman so far as being pre-planned and co-ordinated - that he was the ultimate pragmatist who took what was lying around when he arrived and moulded it with his emerging method.

I don't buy that. I think he showed impatience in the first few months by playing players in a way that failed to use their talents to get on the ball and combine. He forced a way of playing onto this group that was alien to them - one emphasising physicality and lots of pace and eschewing any attempt to consistently dominate the possession and opposition. It led to a sterile lump it long game typified by a deep played ball out from the back to Bolaisie...which seemed our only, highly predictable, tactic in games. Since the Watford game in December - notwithstanding a few lapses - he recognised that until he gets his own players in he must use these players in the fashion they previously played in. In other words, his pragmatism only displayed itself at that latter point. It took four and a half months for the penny to drop and for him to drop his attempt to mould material to a shape they were incapable of bending to.

After this summer and he gets more of his own players in and a preseason, then I believe we'll see a switch to his preferred way of playing - which emphasises pace and athleticism and we'll then see what Koeman is about. What we see now is NOT a Koeman team playing Koeman football.

Talk about welcoming a newcomer to the forum !!

I agree with Pedro on this and you are making assumptions to suit the anti Koeman stand you have taken.

The one thing we know for sure is that since Watford, Everton have played better football evidenced by our results

You dont want to give RK credit for this so have come up with this theory that he's doing it out of necessity and against his better judgement.

 

[Ashtonian]

How am I doing gaffer?

Who is that?

 

[AndyC]

Who is that?

Apart from Johan Cruyff with his arm round the neck of Ronald Koeman, nobody has a clue who all the other fellas are

 

[Barnfred 55]

Good post, but I think it maybe portrays all the decisions made by Koeman so far as being pre-planned and co-ordinated - that he was the ultimate pragmatist who took what was lying around when he arrived and moulded it with his emerging method.

I don't buy that. I think he showed impatience in the first few months by playing players in a way that failed to use their talents to get on the ball and combine. He forced a way of playing onto this group that was alien to them - one emphasising physicality and lots of pace and eschewing any attempt to consistently dominate the possession and opposition. It led to a sterile lump it long game typified by a deep played ball out from the back to Bolaisie...which seemed our only, highly predictable, tactic in games. Since the Watford game in December - notwithstanding a few lapses - he recognised that until he gets his own players in he must use these players in the fashion they previously played in. In other words, his pragmatism only displayed itself at that latter point. It took four and a half months for the penny to drop and for him to drop his attempt to mould material to a shape they were incapable of bending to.

After this summer and he gets more of his own players in and a preseason, then I believe we'll see a switch to his preferred way of playing - which emphasises pace and athleticism and we'll then see what Koeman is about. What we see now is NOT a Koeman team playing Koeman football.

Phone playing up today. Was going to add that we'll have to wait and see what playing style we adopt once RK brings in his own playets this summer. Assuming he's still here!!

 

[a bell maul]

Good post, but I think it maybe portrays all the decisions made by Koeman so far as being pre-planned and co-ordinated - that he was the ultimate pragmatist who took what was lying around when he arrived and moulded it with his emerging method.

I don't buy that. I think he showed impatience in the first few months by playing players in a way that failed to use their talents to get on the ball and combine. He forced a way of playing onto this group that was alien to them - one emphasising physicality and lots of pace and eschewing any attempt to consistently dominate the possession and opposition. It led to a sterile lump it long game typified by a deep played ball out from the back to Bolaisie...which seemed our only, highly predictable, tactic in games. Since the Watford game in December - notwithstanding a few lapses - he recognised that until he gets his own players in he must use these players in the fashion they previously played in. In other words, his pragmatism only displayed itself at that latter point. It took four and a half months for the penny to drop and for him to drop his attempt to mould material to a shape they were incapable of bending to.

After this summer and he gets more of his own players in and a preseason, then I believe we'll see a switch to his preferred way of playing - which emphasises pace and athleticism and we'll then see what Koeman is about. What we see now is NOT a Koeman team playing Koeman football.

lol ...do you write for a living mate? If not, you should think of taking it up; your flights of fancy are pure gold.

 

[Chimpy Glassman]

How am I doing gaffer?

Taking the proverbial out of a group of deluded loons? I approve. Although Cruyff could do with being an ethereal disembodied head in the sky looking down approvingly.

 

[TheCount]

Taking the proverbial out of a group of deluded loons? I approve. Although Cruyff could do with being an ethereal disembodied head in the sky looking down approvingly.

Ha they're mad the tricky reds

 

[MikeH72]

Good post, but I think it maybe portrays all the decisions made by Koeman so far as being pre-planned and co-ordinated - that he was the ultimate pragmatist who took what was lying around when he arrived and moulded it with his emerging method.

I don't buy that. I think he showed impatience in the first few months by playing players in a way that failed to use their talents to get on the ball and combine. He forced a way of playing onto this group that was alien to them - one emphasising physicality and lots of pace and eschewing any attempt to consistently dominate the possession and opposition. It led to a sterile lump it long game typified by a deep played ball out from the back to Bolaisie...which seemed our only, highly predictable, tactic in games. Since the Watford game in December - notwithstanding a few lapses - he recognised that until he gets his own players in he must use these players in the fashion they previously played in. In other words, his pragmatism only displayed itself at that latter point. It took four and a half months for the penny to drop and for him to drop his attempt to mould material to a shape they were incapable of bending to.

After this summer and he gets more of his own players in and a preseason, then I believe we'll see a switch to his preferred way of playing - which emphasises pace and athleticism and we'll then see what Koeman is about. What we see now is NOT a Koeman team playing Koeman football.

Utter laughing stock you

 

[bluestevon]

Good post, but I think it maybe portrays all the decisions made by Koeman so far as being pre-planned and co-ordinated - that he was the ultimate pragmatist who took what was lying around when he arrived and moulded it with his emerging method.

I don't buy that. I think he showed impatience in the first few months by playing players in a way that failed to use their talents to get on the ball and combine. He forced a way of playing onto this group that was alien to them - one emphasising physicality and lots of pace and eschewing any attempt to consistently dominate the possession and opposition. It led to a sterile lump it long game typified by a deep played ball out from the back to Bolaisie...which seemed our only, highly predictable, tactic in games. Since the Watford game in December - notwithstanding a few lapses - he recognised that until he gets his own players in he must use these players in the fashion they previously played in. In other words, his pragmatism only displayed itself at that latter point. It took four and a half months for the penny to drop and for him to drop his attempt to mould material to a shape they were incapable of bending to.

After this summer and he gets more of his own players in and a preseason, then I believe we'll see a switch to his preferred way of playing - which emphasises pace and athleticism and we'll then see what Koeman is about. What we see now is NOT a Koeman team playing Koeman football.

Dave so you think atm we are playing the same or similar way to last season then given your stating we switched back to what their used to playing?

Ignoring we are changing formation in game, pressing massively more than I've ever seen in the past years, not playing any out and out wingers and using the fullbacks for width, how is any if that similar to recent years?

 

[MikeH72]

Dave so you think atm we are playing the same or similar way to last season then given your stating we switched back to what their used to playing?

Ignoring we are changing formation in game, pressing massively more than I've ever seen in the past years, not playing any out and out wingers and using the fullbacks for width, how is any if that similar to recent years?

Wasted effort mate.

 

[Tony Hibbert's 3rd leg]

Good post, but I think it maybe portrays all the decisions made by Koeman so far as being pre-planned and co-ordinated - that he was the ultimate pragmatist who took what was lying around when he arrived and moulded it with his emerging method.

I don't buy that. I think he showed impatience in the first few months by playing players in a way that failed to use their talents to get on the ball and combine. He forced a way of playing onto this group that was alien to them - one emphasising physicality and lots of pace and eschewing any attempt to consistently dominate the possession and opposition. It led to a sterile lump it long game typified by a deep played ball out from the back to Bolaisie...which seemed our only, highly predictable, tactic in games. Since the Watford game in December - notwithstanding a few lapses - he recognised that until he gets his own players in he must use these players in the fashion they previously played in. In other words, his pragmatism only displayed itself at that latter point. It took four and a half months for the penny to drop and for him to drop his attempt to mould material to a shape they were incapable of bending to.

After this summer and he gets more of his own players in and a preseason, then I believe we'll see a switch to his preferred way of playing - which emphasises pace and athleticism and we'll then see what Koeman is about. What we see now is NOT a Koeman team playing Koeman football.

Which is why its intriguing to see how long we can go on a good run of games. He faces a dilemma if the current system works. Does he get players to fit the current system or players to fit his system like at Southampton? There's a few key differences.

He played 2 dynamic forwards and a striker with Southampton, and his strikers would often share the goals between whilst the forwards chipped in as well. Obviously he felt he would wait to the summer until solve this problem because now we only have one natural wide player fit in Lennon.

We have a natural goal scorer, who is aided by an engine room midfield. Lukaku's future is key to this. If stays, I doubt we'll see a drastic change to the system. If you play two wingers with him in the team you are wasting a players. The team suffers defensively.

The different systems will require different ventures in the transfer market. If we stick with the current 3-5-2, we will need defensive and wing back cover (Keeper is priority regardless), and we won't see many forwards come in other than squad players.

If we revert to Koeman's 4-3-3, we'll see forwards come in, and if Lukaku does leave sooner rather than later we will see 2 or three striking options akin to what he had at Saints (Long, Pelle, Austin).

I have a feeling this is all resting on the Lukaku situation. He scores goals, he can change games. But the uncertainty of his future is also making the future make up of our team uncertain.

 

[davek]

Dave so you think atm we are playing the same or similar way to last season then given your stating we switched back to what their used to playing?

Ignoring we are changing formation in game, pressing massively more than I've ever seen in the past years, not playing any out and out wingers and using the fullbacks for width, how is any if that similar to recent years?

That's largely tactics mate, not the method adopted. Yes we are pressing much better than last season but it's what we do with the ball that's reverted to the way we played before Koeman. When we get it we make use of it by building moves, we don't just pump it forward as was the case under this feller until very recently. That's where the change has taken place. He's given these players their head and stopped stifling that. As said, Bolaises injury was crucial in that respect. But know this: next season that will change. Bolasie, his game and players like him are the future of this club and the style of play will reflect that. We have yet to see Koemans Everton. Anyone thinking this is it are not paying attention.