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Ronald Koeman discussion

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davek said:
Ha ha. Brain fart. Anyway, he failed at a Championship club and was then given a PL club to manage. I thought he was extremely lucky, tbh. Even if it was a struggling Swansea.
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Well I think he keeps getting alright jobs based on being a decent (apparently) coach/assistant at Real Madrid and Bayern Munich. Those jobs probably outweigh a dodgy spell at Derby.
 
ianefc said:
If ever there were a time for Everton to play long balls it was at 3-2 on Saturday.

A long ball team would've 'got shut' to relieve some pressure. Did Everton? No, we scored one of the footballing goals of the weekend.

Still moaning about what Everton were doing in October is ridiculous, it smacks of last resort digs. Scrambling around trying to find anyway possible to discredit Everton and the most laughable thing is we're winning and winning well, just the 13 (Thirteen) goals in our last 3 home games.

It's like Hitler's bunker in here. A mad man and his minions trying to convince themselves they can still win the War whilst Koeman, his mighty blues and the vast majority of Evertonians are circling your underground home. Step outside, smell the fresh air, embrace, let's maybe have a little cuddle or FFS pop the Cyanide pill, for the love of GOT.

Give it up. It's over.
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23 passes and then boom, game over :)

As opposed to 23 passes in our own half, and then an aimless punt when invariably put under pressure.

Praise the Lord we no longer have to sit through that pony.
 
ijjysmith said:
Well I think he keeps getting alright jobs based on being a decent (apparently) coach/assistant at Real Madrid and Bayern Munich. Those jobs probably outweigh a dodgy spell at Derby.
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Yes, but how can you tell from those roles whether he's up to managing?
 
ianefc said:
If ever there were a time for Everton to play long balls it was at 3-2 on Saturday.

A long ball team would've 'got shut' to relieve some pressure. Did Everton? No, we scored one of the footballing goals of the weekend.

Still moaning about what Everton were doing in October is ridiculous, it smacks of last resort digs. Scrambling around trying to find anyway possible to discredit Everton and the most laughable thing is we're winning and winning well, just the 13 (Thirteen) goals in our last 3 home games.

It's like Hitler's bunker in here. A mad man and his minions trying to convince themselves they can still win the War whilst Koeman, his mighty blues and the vast majority of Evertonians are circling your underground home. Step outside, smell the fresh air, embrace, let's maybe have a little cuddle or FFS pop the Cyanide pill, for the love of GOT.

Give it up. It's over.
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Doesn't help the discussion trying to make an opposite definitive argument either Ian. It's not over. There are many battles to come ;)

We look good now, but we would need to see how he does longer term and to judge him now you'd need to take the whole picture into account. We were dreadful for a long stretch of this season, and even not very good in those wins at the start of the season. And whilst putting it down to him finding his feet is fine it's not a black and white dismissal of other reasons for that poor form. We did play more direct then and wondering what would be his preferred style overall is a valid discussion, whether the style is important to you or not(you as in each fan in general). The recent upturn is extremely enjoyable but I personally am not getting carried away assuming this is what Koeman will bring in the future.

It would be no shock if we showed up tomorrow and fell to a weak defeat and went on a bit of a poor run. No shock at all. Obviously we would hope for the best and would almost expect better due to recent form but this is still our lovely Everton and you'd need much longer term proof to feel that we have permanently improved.

Whilst I don't agree with the style of the arguments from the narky orange, and doubt sometimes(not always) the reasons for putting forward the arguments, I think it's good to have the conversation pulled back to the more negative side when lots of other posters are getting carried away. The truths in the middle, and Martinez first season should show us that a good season or good run of form like we are in now is no guarantee of anything.
 

Mikey_Fitzgerald said:
Holland1.jpg


36700CB400000578-0-image-a-2_1469018740504.jpg
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That's Bobby to the left of him!
 
ianefc said:
If ever there were a time for Everton to play long balls it was at 3-2 on Saturday.

A long ball team would've 'got shut' to relieve some pressure. Did Everton? No, we scored one of the footballing goals of the weekend.

Still moaning about what Everton were doing in October is ridiculous, it smacks of last resort digs. Scrambling around trying to find anyway possible to discredit Everton and the most laughable thing is we're winning and winning well, just the 13 (Thirteen) goals in our last 3 home games.

It's like Hitler's bunker in here. A mad man and his minions trying to convince themselves they can still win the War whilst Koeman, his mighty blues and the vast majority of Evertonians are circling your underground home. Step outside, smell the fresh air, embrace, let's maybe have a little cuddle or FFS pop the Cyanide pill, for the love of GOT.

Give it up. It's over.
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virtual round of applause Ian
 
bicycleheader said:
Doesn't help the discussion trying to make an opposite definitive argument either Ian. It's not over. There are many battles to come ;)

We look good now, but we would need to see how he does longer term and to judge him now you'd need to take the whole picture into account. We were dreadful for a long stretch of this season, and even not very good in those wins at the start of the season. And whilst putting it down to him finding his feet is fine it's not a black and white dismissal of other reasons for that poor form. We did play more direct then and wondering what would be his preferred style overall is a valid discussion, whether the style is important to you or not(you as in each fan in general). The recent upturn is extremely enjoyable but I personally am not getting carried away assuming this is what Koeman will bring in the future.

It would be no shock if we showed up tomorrow and fell to a weak defeat and went on a bit of a poor run. No shock at all. Obviously we would hope for the best and would almost expect better due to recent form but this is still our lovely Everton and you'd need much longer term proof to feel that we have permanently improved.

Whilst I don't agree with the style of the arguments from the narky orange, and doubt sometimes(not always) the reasons for putting forward the arguments, I think it's good to have the conversation pulled back to the more negative side when lots of other posters are getting carried away. The truths in the middle, and Martinez first season should show us that a good season or good run of form like we are in now is no guarantee of anything.
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That's fair. Maybe we should discuss it when it happens though? If you can't enjoy good form, then what's the point?
 
davek said:
As said mate, these stats are all malleable depending on what site you use and the exact metric being taken from them (long ball/pass etc). HOWEVER, even by your own chosen criteria your point is destroyed when you consider that this season we have the third highest rate of long ball use - and God knows what it must have been say a month or two ago before we began to get it down and play a bit.

Martinez's teams seem to fluctuate between a mid point to upper levels....which pretty much underlines what BS stats can come up with, because our own generally accepted knowledge of that era was that we played a lot of short balls and didn't get back to front as quickly as we should a lot of the time.
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How is my point destroyed mate, you are stating repeatedly that Koemans style of football is the hoof and run style - long ball merchants etc. You have also stated that the recent period that we are playing it on the deck cannot be taken as a sign that is the way he wants to play, and basically harp on about that he has always been someone who plays the long ball etc

The stats i showed from last season - when Koeman had the time to bed in his players, and his system - show catagorically over the course of 38 games that a Martinez team decided to go long far more often than Koemans Southampton team did - how is that malleable - or subjective in the slightest - hell i even used the site you put up to argue your own point to show those figures mate? - as for the exaxct metric - it's the same used for every team mate, they don't use different yardsticks for each...

As for Martinez occupying mid to upper table on the number of long balls played (4th on the most played in his final season) and it showing how the stat is worthless - errrm no Dave it doesn't - what it does show is we ran out of ideas frequently - passing it round and round and back and then a lump up front aimlessly half the time, or putting ourselves under so much presure fannying around that we ended up getting forced into almost making a clearance whilst in possession.

How often for example did we get a free kick in a decent position and end up going back and sideways with it - until it ended up with a cb or keeper who then lumped it up front?

So basically your point is that Koeman is a long ball merchant and thats how he wants us to play
Despite evidence which shows at Southampton he didn't - and was in fact playing a lot less of them than some supposdely 'beautiful' footballing sides?
Despite the evidence that he has as the team begins to adapt to his systems - we have been playing less and less of them and more and more on the ground - much like he did at Saints?

But you would rather take in isolation his initial period at us, with quite a lot of players he didnt rate - with a woefully unfit team unable to press the way he wanted and with confidence shot on half the squad when he took over - and thats your barometre to judge how he wants to play?


So Dave - what exactly are you basing your entire opinion of Koeman being a long ball style manager on - it can't be the stats - as youve been shown that in his career he doesnt favour that, i am assuming that it's not with your own eyes, as i seriously doubt you have ever watched a southampton game that wasnt against us, ditto i dont believe you would have ever watched any of his previous clubs when he was manager, so do tell, exactly why is Koeman a long ball manager?

There is having a viewpoint mate, and there is taking absolutely everything you can do in isolation to fit that view, ignoring everything that contradicts that view or debunks it, or making more and more ridiculous excuses why something can be ignored that doesn't fit into your set in stone portrait of the manager.

The Park end made him play the kids being a somewhat classic of yours
 

slightly off topic but does anyone pay for a times subscription? could they post the duncan ferguson interview in it today. read a bit in the echo, talks about how koeman is helping him develop as a coach.
 

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