Ronald Koeman discussion

[BlueToff]

Yeah I agree.

That's why I think some of the talk of mentality etc is just getting stupid now. Anyone who saw the team we had out and thought we would win was kidding themselves massively. We quite simply lost to a better side.

That's true, though at the same time I think we did have enough chances (without playing well) to at least get some kind of result.

We didn't take them, and Liverpool - while they were the better side without playing remarkably well - did take theirs.

 

[bitter-no-better]

Actually we blasted Moyes for never making subs before the 60 minute mark. Sam with Martinez, who apparently at times had planned his subs and timing of subs before the game had even started.

I personally think subs should be used to adapt your lineup and tactics on the fly if needed. My issue with RK isn't that he does early subs/changes, it is the frequency of these being needed very early, which could be many reasons: his scouting is crap, he's outwitted by the opposition manager, a player is having an unexpectedly poor game and the risk of leaving them on can't be taken or he's looking to exploit a surprising weakness in the opposition.

He has used his subs very well this season. Take the West Brom away game for instance very quickly taking off McCarthy and it worked. Bournemouth home he changed things when they started getting back in the game and it worked. He does not just change a like for like. He can use a sub to change the formation and that is the sign of a good manager.

 

[BlueToff]

He has used his subs very well this season. Take the West Brom away game for instance very quickly taking off McCarthy and it worked. Bournemouth home he changed things when they started getting back in the game and it worked. He does not just change a like for like. He can use a sub to change the formation and that is the sign of a good manager.

The frustration for me on Saturday was that he didn't change it sooner.

And that's because I always have confidence that when he does change things those changes will pay dividends more often than not.

 

[davek]

So that is your proof that he did not have to play the youngsters then?

He had Barry, Valencia and Mirallas on the bench. In what way was - as he implies - his hand forced to play them? If he says stuff like that it's reasonable to question it...otherwise we become like those cultists over there with their Rafatollah shrines.

 

[davek]

Speaking of talking straight, you've been knocking him all season for not using the youth, then when he does, you say he should have gone with experience. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Yes, use youngsters. But do you pick a game like that to throw four in?

 

[Amw79]

Yes, use youngsters. But do you pick a game like that to throw four in?

You're correct, but other than Miralles for DCL, I'm not sure what our options were, other then bringing Barry in, which most thought was a bad idea.

 

[mkrudden]

For the second - yes I agree.

Gana still got there but didn't time his tackle well.

Third goal, it's purely down to messing around with the ball at the back and then a mistake from Holgate (IIRC) giving the ball away.

Coutinho picks a quick pass and then Origi is literally allowed to stroll towards goal before hitting the ball straight into an open net, as for some inexplicable reason Robles had sprinted to the penalty spot.

Again, that's not tactics. That's basics.

don't forget the basics as a GK, setting yourself and ready to follow the direction the ball is shot.
Rather than running out, stopping dead and then realising you're going to have to guess because you realise your errors

 

[mkrudden]

You're correct, but other than Miralles for DCL, I'm not sure what our options were, other then bringing Barry in, which most thought was a bad idea.

Holgate RCB

RWB could have played Kenny / Davies?

It's a difficult one though as we were down to the bare bones

 

[Saint Domingo]

Yes, use youngsters. But do you pick a game like that to throw four in?

From the man who was praising Puel for using them in the league cup semi and finals.

Yes when your older players have a history of losing these games, and are physically weak and slow, then yes going with the youth seemed a good idea beforehand, almost everyone agreed, the one exception being Mirallas for DCL. It didn't work out, but if you know of a fit CB and RB on the books better than Holgate and Pennington I'd love to know who they are.

 

[davek]

You're correct, but other than Miralles for DCL, I'm not sure what our options were, other then bringing Barry in, which most thought was a bad idea.

Not going up against a useless midfield of theirs of Lucas, Can and Wijnaldum.

 

[davek]

From the man who was praising Puel for using them in the league cup semi and finals.

Yes when your older players have a history of losing these games, and are physically weak and slow, then yes going with the youth seemed a good idea beforehand, almost everyone agreed, the one exception being Mirallas for DCL. It didn't work out, but if you know of a fit CB and RB on the books better than Holgate and Pennington I'd love to know who they are.

Historically, Mirallas is good in this fixture. At a minimum from those on the bench he should have started. Barry would have been facing a pretty immobile midfield unit in those Liverpool three. It was the time to use Barry.

 

[ianefc]

Historically, Mirallas is good in this fixture. At a minimum from those on the bench he should have started. Barry would have been facing a pretty immobile midfield unit in those Liverpool three. It was the time to use Barry.

 

[Ernie]

I think he's a decent manager but won't ever manage at the top clubs, He's very limited and looks massively out of his depth against the big teams

 

[Saint Domingo]

Historically, Mirallas is good in this fixture. At a minimum from those on the bench he should have started. Barry would have been facing a pretty immobile midfield unit in those Liverpool three. It was the time to use Barry.

I'm sorry but no. That midfield whilst pretty limited on the ball have trained all season to press in that mad dog manner. All Can and Wijnaldum can really do is run hard and fast. Gueye and Davies got ran over by them, Barry would have been road kill. Every man and his dog was saying no Barry before the game. It's too easy to come out afterwards and slam the manager for not playing him now. I think it would have been even worse had Barry played.

You've not named better fit defenders than Holgate and Pennington so Koeman had no choice in his backline but to go with youth.

 

[B17BLG]

He had Barry, Valencia and Mirallas on the bench. In what way was - as he implies - his hand forced to play them? If he says stuff like that it's reasonable to question it...otherwise we become like those cultists over there with their Rafatollah shrines.

So you agree he didn't have to play the youth?