Ronald Koeman discussion

[hktoffee]

He was seconds away from masterminding an away win against a United side no one apart from Chelsea have beaten for ages and yet he's being derided as tactically inadequate?

Let's have it right, what he's working with is horrific (kids excluded):

2 clueless calamity keepers
3 CBs, 2 of which belong in the old people's home, the other one (now injured) erratic at best
He's got 2 full backs (one of which now crocked) who are up to standard with zero cover.
He's then got one striker and probably 3 midfielders who are at prem standard (one went to AFCON, one has missed every important game)
Every other player in the squad is largely atrociously inconsistent.

He's leant heavily on two star youngsters in Holgate and Davies and two not so star in DCL and Pennington. Lookman hasn't featured much.

He's had long term injuries to Bolasie, McCarthy, Besic, Coleman and Funes Mori.

When you consider that Southampton are below us with Forster, Van Dijk, Bertrand, Romeu Tadic Redmond (all of which would walk into our squad probably our team) then you can see what a decent job Koeman has done.

You look at what he culled out in the last window and you still look at the squad and think it may take him 2 windows to sort it out.

Frankly the squad Martinez left him was an absolute abomination which would have been in relegation battles had it not been for Lukaku's goals.

He has Lukaku Schneiderlin Gueye Coleman Davies Barkley who could legitimately feature in a top 6 squad.

Bolasie Lookman Baines Besic Holgate deserve another look or more chances due to injury/age.

Most of the players above Koeman has brought in or promoted from the youth team.

The majority of the rest of the squad is terrible.

I'd give him two more windows before judging Koeman he has a huge rebuilding job to do.

If this club do not spend more than the current top 6 but expecting to get top 6 I don't see how this really works out.

 

[Ernie]

No mate, bang average was the two seasons previous

nope

those where below average or poor

these are average, nothing special at all

The cup runs where horrendous

 

[Tree13]

An utter bang average season with two disasters in the cups

Let's see if he up's his game next season or big questions need to be asked

Yet still a vast improvement on the previous two seasons.

 

[Tree13]

A lot of our fans are just idiots and have zero self restraint. Lots of them have hated Koeman right from the start and are looking for any excuse to give hin a verbal kicking. I'm not going to pretend he hasn't made decisions at points this season that I've found odd and he's made mistakes but in context this season has gone far better then anyone could of hoped. I just wish some of the fools following our club would clalm down a bit and not talk about the title or champions league after a 3-1 home win against Burnley or cry about being better off with the guy who only won 12 home league matches in two years after we end a run of eight successive home wins against the best team in the country.

I think Koeman has us in the right direction and with proper investment this summer I see no reason we can't seriously compete for the top four and/or a trophy next season. It would however be helpful if our fans could try and be less bipolar every week and understand that a single game isn't the be all and end all.

Very well said.

 

[hktoffee]

...it's not hindsight because I said before the game that Barry had to play. RK tried to be clever in the Derby but the lack of a defensive foil in front of the back four played into the Reds hands. Mane and Coutinho play 'between the lines' meaning our back four was exposed and Gueye/Davies were the wrong side of the threat. As was said on commentary, "Everton are playing Coutinho back to form".

Koeman alarmingly didn't change the tactics during the game but he introduced Barry at United. He was outstanding and we looked solid again.

Like Mane and Coutinho, Hazard and Pedro play 'between the lines'. Without Schneiderlin we had to play somebody in his position - Barry. To counter the threat, RK asked Gueye to man mark Hazard but it disrupts the whole balance of the team and still leaves us exposed. When we desert the system that works so well for us we have come unstuck.

I like the manager, we have definitely made progress this season but he has got things wrong on occasion.

True. I would not even play Barkley in CM because he offers nothing defensively in the middle of the park.

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

You have got it spot on. At this moment in time we are going backwards!

Going backwards? Did you watch us last season or the one before?! Have a word with yourself.

 

[dublinbluenose]

Manifestly untrue.

Had Koeman NOT deployed Gana to man mark Hazard, what do you think the end result would have been? Sure, we missed Schneiderlin in midfield, but allowing Hazard to roam the park would not have improved the situation. As it stood, Hazard was largely stifled and for a while it looked like Barkley and Davies might just manage against Chelsea's midfield. The absence of Schneiderlin, Besic and McCarthy did mean that we had to go with a less than perfect choice in midfield in order to allow Gana to shadow Hazard, but not shadowing him would have seen us concede goals in the first half, leading to a bigger loss IMHO. This way we had a shout of scraping a draw.

There was a 25 yard wide gap exposed in front of the back four for most of the match. That was the flaw, another defensive midfielder would have filled that - such as McCarthy or Schniderlin.

There were lots of other ways we could have set up. Maybe it's just a lack of quality in our squad but it was the wrong tactic without the right players imho.

 

[Ernie]

Yet still a vast improvement on the previous two seasons.

I'm not arsed about the last two seasons

I'm judging Koeman, not Martinez

He's proved he's sound with beating dross, the odd good showing against the weaker of the top 6 but seriously lacking in big games like the Derbys and cup games

 

[Tree13]

He was seconds away from masterminding an away win against a United side no one apart from Chelsea have beaten for ages and yet he's being derided as tactically inadequate?

Let's have it right, what he's working with is horrific (kids excluded):

2 clueless calamity keepers
3 CBs, 2 of which belong in the old people's home, the other one (now injured) erratic at best
He's got 2 full backs (one of which now crocked) who are up to standard with zero cover.
He's then got one striker and probably 3 midfielders who are at prem standard (one went to AFCON, one has missed every important game)
Every other player in the squad is largely atrociously inconsistent.

He's leant heavily on two star youngsters in Holgate and Davies and two not so star in DCL and Pennington. Lookman hasn't featured much.

He's had long term injuries to Bolasie, McCarthy, Besic, Coleman and Funes Mori.

When you consider that Southampton are below us with Forster, Van Dijk, Bertrand, Romeu Tadic Redmond (all of which would walk into our squad probably our team) then you can see what a decent job Koeman has done.

You look at what he culled out in the last window and you still look at the squad and think it may take him 2 windows to sort it out.

Frankly the squad Martinez left him was an absolute abomination which would have been in relegation battles had it not been for Lukaku's goals.

He has Lukaku Schneiderlin Gueye Coleman Davies Barkley who could legitimately feature in a top 6 squad.

Bolasie Lookman Baines Besic Holgate deserve another look or more chances due to injury/age.

Most of the players above Koeman has brought in or promoted from the youth team.

The majority of the rest of the squad is terrible.

I'd give him two more windows before judging Koeman he has a huge rebuilding job to do.

Spot on.

Added to the above, Koeman has got some decent performances out of Mirallas this year too.

 

[hktoffee]

nope

those where below average or poor

these are average, nothing special at all

The cup runs where horrendous

Meaningless unless you win a cup.

 

[Kinghowie]

This is Martinez level of delusion.

How can another better manager can get the best out of this group? 11th and 12th in the past 2 years. It is black and white.

If you're happy finishing above the West Brom's and Sotons etc of this World, good on you. When you see the 'quality' of the 4 teams below Chelsea and Spurs, can you really tell me they are that much better than us? We have a top goalscorer and we finished 'best of the rest'. Just because we finished 11th and 12th in the last 2 years, under achieved and mismanaged, that shouldn't be yardstick to measure them by.

 

[Ernie]

Meaningless unless you win a cup.

Well the further you go the more chance you have of winning

We where beaten at home by a championship side and a relegation threatened Leicester

 

[Tree13]

Meaningless unless you win a cup.

Spot on.

You either win the Cup or you don't. "Good Cup run" usually means "knocked out in the semi final, with league form suffering along the way due to extra games."

 

[Ernie]

If you're happy finishing above the West Brom's and Sotons etc of this World, good on you. When you see the 'quality' of the 4 teams below Chelsea and Spurs, can you really tell me they are that much better than us? We have a top goalscorer and we finished 'best of the rest'. Just because we finished 11th and 12th in the last 2 years, under achieved and mismanaged, that shouldn't be yardstick to measure them by.

The "it's better than Martinez" seems to be the common theme

 

[hktoffee]

If you're happy finishing above the West Brom's and Sotons etc of this World, good on you. When you see the 'quality' of the 4 teams below Chelsea and Spurs, can you really tell me they are that much better than us? We have a top goalscorer and we finished 'best of the rest'. Just because we finished 11th and 12th in the last 2 years, under achieved and mismanaged, that shouldn't be yardstick to measure them by.

I don't know how you can twist my words. I said 11th and 12th, this old core under Martinez was proven mid-table quality and now you said you can't see the squad of RS isn't any better than us. Ok I call this delusion.

Yes they are better that's why we get 7th. You have no evidence to back your claim. Just saying you think the squad is better than we think is not good enough. Koeman is improving the squad with his tactics and we are heading in the right direction.