Ronald Koeman discussion

[formerly manx toffee]

Hmm. This is the Koeman thread but the discussion above is rightly broader.

I am glass half full at present. When the fixtures came out I thought we would have to work hard to come through the first set of games in contention. We beat Stoke at home, drew with City and and lost to Chelsea away. That is probably what we expected. Next games are home to Spurs, away at Utd then home to Sunderland and Bournemouth. This will be the end of September. We could be sat around 12 points after 7 games (10 to 15 spread !). Not the end of the world given who those games were against and form that would see us in Europe at the end of the season. Put poor teams to the sword pick up points against the better teams.


In terms of the team we have strengthened GK, Defence, Midfield and the Bench in my view. On the face of it we are weaker up top but that strengthened Midfield (inc no.10) will produce goals. Gylfi and Davie both have goals in them as do Rooney and Sandro. Could they get 35 to 40 goals between them ? Yes, I think they can


My biggest concern is not our strengthening it is the activity of others teams. We are looking for a couple of them to struggle compared to last year in order for us to improve on 7th place. Very doable but too early to tell.

 

[Steve Wigan]

There are only possibly two clubs in the world that could have replaced Lukaku like for like by clicking their fingers,and even Barca and Chelsea have not achieved all their targets in the last window. Lukaku WANTED TO LEAVE. He told us so...and no matter how much notice he gave us,and it was considerable, he was never going to be replaced smoothly. RK knew he would have to change our style,and spread the scoring around,because whatever striker he got, the new man would never be as effective as a scorer as Lukaku...the new man needed to have other qualities. The incoming striker didn't happen. We are one of many clubs who missed targets in the summer, but we still had one of the best windows on record.
And so we have the enormous potential of DCL,and we have the coaching,and tactical skill of RK to see us through until at least January. So be it...its not the end of the world,we will 'find a way' and by the end of the season we will be a better,stronger team. With Rooney,Siggy,Klausen,and others, there are potential goals from many areas of the team.

 

[BlueToff]

I can say it very easily, Toff.

By common consent we had "underachieved" with those two 11th place finishes......so making the leap to seventh was not like we bridged some Grand Canyoneasque chasm....welcome as it was.

But no great excuse for hanging out the bunting.

And whilst it is great we are in Europe......Lyon here I come .....the simple fact is that but for in unjustly disallowed goal for Saints in the EFL cup final that simple pleasure might have been denied us.

We are only in Europe because two of the qualifying spots went to teams which went into Europe by another route.

And whilst there is no denying that City are a very good side, they only had ten men for most the game and they gave us the runaround.

And Burnley beat Chelsea where we just went there to keep the score down. Go figure

But ultimately Toff, I judge things by what I see with my own eyes.

And this turgid stuff we have seen over six and a half competitive games, the first half versus Split being the exception, was evident for much of last season as well.....particularly away from home.

At the lower level clubs as well as them as finished above us.

I am not looking forward to Saturday's game with any great optimism I have to say, Toff.

And it was an awful lot further into Bobby's reign when such ominous feelings coloured my judgement

But we did improve though? We made the leap from 11th to 7th which I think we can call agree is where we should be - as in the bare minimum.

But we still achieved it. We still got back to where we should be so we did improve.

Now it's about building again. The end of the window wasn't kind to us and as a club we only have ourselves to blame for not getting those one or two more additions in.

On your second point, Burnley beat a Chelsea side who were down to 10 men for 80 minutes Khal, and were a bit of a shambles. We faced a Chelsea side who came off a great win vs Spurs and were back at their usual standard. It happens, even though our tactics were poor.

So we'll see. Goals win games and keeping clean sheets does as well.

We have to find a balance and there's a lot of integration to come.

 

[Khalekan]

Love your positivity my man.

Glad to hear it

 

[royalblue66]

There are only possibly two clubs in the world that could have replaced Lukaku like for like by clicking their fingers,and even Barca and Chelsea have not achieved all their targets in the last window. Lukaku WANTED TO LEAVE. He told us so...and no matter how much notice he gave us,and it was considerable, he was never going to be replaced smoothly. RK knew he would have to change our style,and spread the scoring around,because whatever striker he got, the new man would never be as effective as a scorer as Lukaku...the new man needed to have other qualities. The incoming striker didn't happen. We are one of many clubs who missed targets in the summer, but we still had one of the best windows on record.
And so we have the enormous potential of DCL,and we have the coaching,and tactical skill of RK to see us through until at least January. So be it...its not the end of the world,we will 'find a way' and by the end of the season we will be a better,stronger team. With Rooney,Siggy,Klausen,and others, there are potential goals from many areas of the team.

Good post mate.

 

[COYBL25]

And as I've said the failure to get a striker reflects very badly on the people who were responsible for that.

But our side isn't unbalanced if we find a different way of playing, which is what Koeman wants to do.

If we play in the style we did last year, then yes, it will look disjointed and unbalanced.

But I think in the majority of games we'll see a line up similar to the one that started at home vs Split and we really clicked into gear in that game, for the first half at least.

Unfortunately our start to the season hasn't really allowed much breathing room. But we've got 4 points from three tough games.

So every good points well made there, however as @Khalekan says, I'm judging what I see with my eyes and what I've seen so far hasn't been pretty.

It smacks of a manager who doesn't really trust his team yet ( I understand this to a point, with new players to bed in ) and has opted for the " safety first " approach a la Moyes.

I appreciate you can't have it both ways. The lunatic Martinez proved this, however you can't expect fans to get too excited watching aimless balls lobbed up all the time, whist trying to kept it tight at the back at the same time.

We've supposed / should've have moved on from this type of footy, especially with the money we spunked during the Summer.

 

[Kev50]

As a doomer and gloomer I'd say the problem I have is we have massively weakened the attack.
We struggled to create chances last season but were saved by having a hugely effective striker (24 goals in 94 shots is the best scoring accuracy in the league) and one of the most creative midfielders in Barkley (top 10 for chances created in open play, top 10 for distance carrying the ball up field).
For various reasons we lost both those players.

It may be that Sigurdsson, Rooney, Sandro and Klaassen combine to fill that gap in the squad but they are all very different style players. Klaassen and Sigurdsson are players who ghost into the box to score and assist. Sandro and Rooney don't provide the physical threat and strength of Lukaku.

In short I don't see who will be scoring or setting up goals.

Gylfi will be setting them up and Rooney will be scoring them.

 

[granter79]

So every good points well made there, however as @Khalekan says, I'm judging what I see with my eyes and what I've seen so far hasn't been pretty.

It smacks of a manager who doesn't really trust his team yet ( I understand this to a point, with new players to bed in ) and has opted for the " safety first " approach a la Moyes.

I appreciate you can't have it both ways. The lunatic Martinez proved this, however you can't expect fans to get too excited watching aimless balls lobbed up all the time, whist trying to kept it tight at the back at the same time.

We've supposed / should've have moved on from this type of footy, especially with the money we spunked during the Summer.

agree around not trusting the players yet. I hope this changes as the team is fitter and get use to each other. Wait n see. Might take longer now again without the striker he wanted

 

[riddick]

So every good points well made there, however as @Khalekan says, I'm judging what I see with my eyes and what I've seen so far hasn't been pretty.

It smacks of a manager who doesn't really trust his team yet ( I understand this to a point, with new players to bed in ) and has opted for the " safety first " approach a la Moyes.

I appreciate you can't have it both ways. The lunatic Martinez proved this, however you can't expect fans to get too excited watching aimless balls lobbed up all the time, whist trying to kept it tight at the back at the same time.

We've supposed / should've have moved on from this type of footy, especially with the money we spunked during the Summer.

I think that's really poor management if that's the case tbh. He had to have had SOME kind of a plan when he had his targets. He wanted Schneiderlin, he got Schneiderlin. He wanted Pickford, he got Pickford. He wanted Klassen, he got Klassen. He wanted Keane, he got Keane. He wanted Sandro, he got Sandro. He wanted Rooney, he got Rooney. He wanted Sigurdsson, he got Sigurdsson.

Every single player he wanted, bar Giroud, he got. There has got to be some reason he wanted them all. "Not trusting" a team with 7 players he's purchased in 2 windows is insane.

 

[BlueToff]

I think that's really poor management if that's the case tbh. He had to have had SOME kind of a plan when he had his targets. He wanted Schneiderlin, he got Schneiderlin. He wanted Pickford, he got Pickford. He wanted Klassen, he got Klassen. He wanted Keane, he got Keane. He wanted Sandro, he got Sandro. He wanted Rooney, he got Rooney. He wanted Sigurdsson, he got Sigurdsson.

Every single player he wanted, bar Giroud, he got. There has got to be some reason he wanted them all. "Not trusting" a team with 7 players he's purchased in 2 windows is insane.

It isn't the case

 

[COYBL25]

I think that's really poor management if that's the case tbh. He had to have had SOME kind of a plan when he had his targets. He wanted Schneiderlin, he got Schneiderlin. He wanted Pickford, he got Pickford. He wanted Klassen, he got Klassen. He wanted Keane, he got Keane. He wanted Sandro, he got Sandro. He wanted Rooney, he got Rooney. He wanted Sigurdsson, he got Sigurdsson.

Every single player he wanted, bar Giroud, he got. There has got to be some reason he wanted them all. "Not trusting" a team with 7 players he's purchased in 2 windows is insane.

All of that only works if you have a striker to play off them, which we don't.

Now that's insane.

 

[matty1878]

Look at the forwards. Ffs Ronnie must be livid.

 

[Norwegian Cow]

wish koeman would go out and say something about the transfer window and his plan with the squad

 

[marsh]

No suprise with the stat that shows we are the slowest moving the ball forward!! We need to improve drastically otherwise it could become a boring, non enjoyable Everton that we see

 

[Joey66]

There are only possibly two clubs in the world that could have replaced Lukaku like for like by clicking their fingers,and even Barca and Chelsea have not achieved all their targets in the last window. Lukaku WANTED TO LEAVE. He told us so...and no matter how much notice he gave us,and it was considerable, he was never going to be replaced smoothly. RK knew he would have to change our style,and spread the scoring around,because whatever striker he got, the new man would never be as effective as a scorer as Lukaku...the new man needed to have other qualities. The incoming striker didn't happen. We are one of many clubs who missed targets in the summer, but we still had one of the best windows on record.
And so we have the enormous potential of DCL,and we have the coaching,and tactical skill of RK to see us through until at least January. So be it...its not the end of the world,we will 'find a way' and by the end of the season we will be a better,stronger team. With Rooney,Siggy,Klausen,and others, there are potential goals from many areas of the team.

spud gun attack with those you mention!
DCL has to step up its a big ask we should have never sold Lukaku 1- so cheap 2- not until we replaced him!
a bad way to do business - the chosen one bragging today how he got a bargain!