Ronald Koeman discussion

[BlueToff]

And as the chances of another club coming calling with a better offer are pretty slim, we just have to face the fact Koeman will sit on this six million for the next year and ten months.

IMO there is already a whiff of fin de siecle and all round ennui about his tenure and we may already be in the long goodbye stage

Or running the contract down, as Ross Barkley is doing

IMO the club is moving in the right direction. We've had a good transfer window with a frustrating end and Koeman has shown no signs of not being fully committed to the project.

He's not even half way into his three-year deal, so I don't get why people already seem to be worrying about that side of it either.

Of our seven competitive games so far this season, we've won four, drawn two and lost one. The football hasn't been the most fluent but we've got 8 new signings that are still settling into the squad and we're having - as a team - to adjust how we're playing.

Barkley made his decision. The injury has complicated things further as well.

I just don't understand the doom and gloom (not saying you're being doomy or gloomy my friend) that seems to be around the fanbase atm.

Yeh, we cocked up in not getting a CF. That was a priority and I can't understand why the board - having backed the manager all summer - picked now not to do so in regards to such a key area of the team. But we're still heading in the right direction.

 

[Khalekan]

IMO the club is moving in the right direction. We've had a good transfer window with a frustrating end and Koeman has shown no signs of not being fully committed to the project.

He's not even half way into his three-year deal, so I don't get why people already seem to be worrying about that side of it either.

Of our seven competitive games so far this season, we've won four, drawn two and lost one. The football hasn't been the most fluent but we've got 8 new signings that are still settling into the squad and we're having - as a team - to adjust how we're playing.

Barkley made his decision. The injury has complicated things further as well.

I just don't understand the doom and gloom (not saying you're being doomy or gloomy my friend) that seems to be around the fanbase atm.

Yeh, we cocked up in not getting a CF. That was a priority and I can't understand why the board - having backed the manager all summer - picked now not to do so in regards to such a key area of the team. But we're still heading in the right direction.

I don't disagree with you that the club is moving in the right direction, Toff.

But the team isn't.

The club is making giant strides off the field.

But on the field we are like the curate's egg.

And this manager does not appear to have either the skill sets nor the temperament to replicate on the field what is happening off it IMO.

 

[Timak]

I just don't understand the doom and gloom (not saying you're being doomy or gloomy my friend) that seems to be around the fanbase atm.

Yeh, we cocked up in not getting a CF. That was a priority and I can't understand why the board - having backed the manager all summer - picked now not to do so in regards to such a key area of the team. But we're still heading in the right direction.

As a doomer and gloomer I'd say the problem I have is we have massively weakened the attack.
We struggled to create chances last season but were saved by having a hugely effective striker (24 goals in 94 shots is the best scoring accuracy in the league) and one of the most creative midfielders in Barkley (top 10 for chances created in open play, top 10 for distance carrying the ball up field).
For various reasons we lost both those players.

It may be that Sigurdsson, Rooney, Sandro and Klaassen combine to fill that gap in the squad but they are all very different style players. Klaassen and Sigurdsson are players who ghost into the box to score and assist. Sandro and Rooney don't provide the physical threat and strength of Lukaku.

In short I don't see who will be scoring or setting up goals.

 

[BlueToff]

I don't disagree with you that the club is moving in the right direction, Toff.

But the team isn't.

The club is making giant strides off the field.

But on the field we are like the curate's egg.

And this manager does not appear to have either the skill sets nor the temperament to replicate on the field what is happening off it IMO.

How can you say that though Khal?

We finished 11th two years running. Last season we finished 7th and returned to Europe. Anyone saying we didn't improve are ignoring basic facts.

We've had 7 games so far and we've won the majority - without ever really clicking.

The games we've drawn have been away in Croatia and against a very very good City side.

While only the first-half against Split has been excellent so far, the only 'bad' performance we've put in was against defending champions Chelsea, half down to the injuries/fixture congestion (which we must learn to deal with) and half down to some poor tactics/performances.

So I'm baffled how you can't see the improvement we've made in the last 12 months.

The litmus test is finding a different way of playing without Lukaku. To do this, Koeman wanted another striker and we can all agree he's been let down in that regard. However, we still have a good squad and he must now show he has the skill - as he did at Saints - to work with that.

 

[COYBL25]

As a doomer and gloomer I'd say the problem I have is we have massively weakened the attack.
We struggled to create chances last season but were saved by having a hugely effective striker (24 goals in 94 shots is the best scoring accuracy in the league) and one of the most creative midfielders in Barkley (top 10 for chances created in open play, top 10 for distance carrying the ball up field).
For various reasons we lost both those players.

It may be that Sigurdsson, Rooney, Sandro and Klaassen combine to fill that gap in the squad but they are all very different style players. Klaassen and Sigurdsson are players who ghost into the box to score and assist. Sandro and Rooney don't provide the physical threat and strength of Lukaku.

In short I don't see who will be scoring or setting up goals.

Even shorter - we're very unbalanced as a team.

 

[BlueToff]

As a doomer and gloomer I'd say the problem I have is we have massively weakened the attack.
We struggled to create chances last season but were saved by having a hugely effective striker (24 goals in 94 shots is the best scoring accuracy in the league) and one of the most creative midfielders in Barkley (top 10 for chances created in open play, top 10 for distance carrying the ball up field).
For various reasons we lost both those players.

It may be that Sigurdsson, Rooney, Sandro and Klaassen combine to fill that gap in the squad but they are all very different style players. Klaassen and Sigurdsson are players who ghost into the box to score and assist. Sandro and Rooney don't provide the physical threat and strength of Lukaku.

In short I don't see who will be scoring or setting up goals.

We'll find a different way of playing.

You need to get out of the mindset that we'll be sticking with the style we had - which was basically to play to Rom's strengths.

How quickly we can adjust/that come to fruition will be what matters.

 

[Death]

What's going on in this thread. We are doing better in the league than most predicted so far. Same people that predicted we would get 3 points out of the first six games are on here gargling bleach. One loss out of pre-season, Europa, and the league and against the champions.

The performances will come. Let's just get out of this nightmare start alive first.

 

[BlueToff]

Even shorter - we're very unbalanced as a team.

No we aren't though.

We're much more balanced if anything.

The issue is the failure to get a striker. Questions should be asked about that. Koeman demanded it. Why back the manager all summer and then not get him a key piece at the end?

Honestly lads, just assess. We're three league games into the season, and two of those games have been away at sides who finished 3rd and 1st respectively, and have spent more on four players than we have on 9.

We're in the group stages of Europe after four testing legs (mainly due to how early it started).

The way some are acting, it's like we're in December and propping up the table.

It's a long season. Chill out.

 

[Timak]

So I'm baffled how you can't see the improvement we've made in the last 12 months.

The litmus test is finding a different way of playing without Lukaku. To do this, Koeman wanted another striker and we can all agree he's been let down in that regard. However, we still have a good squad and he must now show he has the skill - as he did at Saints - to work with that.

We are far better organised and fitter than under Martinez.

However Koeman has also had £220m to spend on the squad and has only had to sell Stones and Lukaku.

He has signed a £30m goalkeeper, spent £40m on centre backs, £60m on central midfielders, £95m on attacking midfielders and £5m on strikers in that time.

 

[BlueToff]

We are far better organised and fitter than under Martinez.

However Koeman has also had £220m to spend on the squad and has only had to sell Stones and Lukaku.

He has signed a £30m goalkeeper, spent £40m on centre backs, £60m on central midfielders, £95m on attacking midfielders and £5m on strikers in that time.

Who did Martinez have to sell mate?

I was a fan of Bobby up until it became clear he'd lost the team, but we only sold one player for a big fee during his time here. Fellaini.

And that was a player who didn't suit his style of play anyway.

And we are better off for all of those players we have signed.

Our defence improved last year and the introduction of Williams definitely helped that, even as a stop-gap measure. We desperately needed a GK and he's already won us points this season.

We desperately needed more creativity and Klaassen and Gylfi provide that. It's just a shame about Ross.

He's introduced as many young players as key 1st team players during his one season here as RM did in three...

 

[COYBL25]

No we aren't though.

We're much more balanced if anything.

The issue is the failure to get a striker. Questions should be asked about that. Koeman demanded it. Why back the manager all summer and then not get him a key piece at the end?

Honestly lads, just assess. We're three league games into the season, and two of those games have been away at sides who finished 3rd and 1st respectively, and have spent more on four players than we have on 9.

We're in the group stages of Europe after four testing legs (mainly due to how early it started).

The way some are acting, it's like we're in December and propping up the table.

It's a long season. Chill out.

A defence with one side that's not covered adequately, a midfield that lacks pace ( not knocking any of them by the way ).

No proper goal scorer.

Sorry, but that's an unbalanced team in my eyes.

 

[BlueToff]

A defence with one side that's not covered adequately, a midfield that lacks pace ( not knocking any of them by the way ).

No proper goal scorer.

Sorry, but that's an unbalanced team in my eyes.

And as I've said the failure to get a striker reflects very badly on the people who were responsible for that.

But our side isn't unbalanced if we find a different way of playing, which is what Koeman wants to do.

If we play in the style we did last year, then yes, it will look disjointed and unbalanced.

But I think in the majority of games we'll see a line up similar to the one that started at home vs Split and we really clicked into gear in that game, for the first half at least.

Unfortunately our start to the season hasn't really allowed much breathing room. But we've got 4 points from three tough games.

 

[Black Belt Jones]

We are far better organised and fitter than under Martinez.

However Koeman has also had £220m to spend on the squad and has only had to sell Stones and Lukaku.

He has signed a £30m goalkeeper, spent £40m on centre backs, £60m on central midfielders, £95m on attacking midfielders and £5m on strikers in that time.

Striker is a tough position to fill with quality, though. Who lashes them in on the reg and is a realistic target for us? I mean they must be out there, and it's a failure not to have sorted it out, but I don't see it as incompetence or anything like that. You've got 6 months to replace Lukaku - get on it. That's a tough ask that might have boiled down to 1 or 2 candidates that just didn't work out, and we don't have the massive funds or CL standing that would force the issue.

How long did it take us to get a quality goalkeeper from when it was obvious we needed one? I think we have to accept that these key positions are hard to fill and sometimes need a few goes to get right.

 

[Khalekan]

How can you say that though Khal?

We finished 11th two years running. Last season we finished 7th and returned to Europe. Anyone saying we didn't improve are ignoring basic facts.

We've had 7 games so far and we've won the majority - without ever really clicking.

The games we've drawn have been away in Croatia and against a very very good City side.

While only the first-half against Split has been excellent so far, the only 'bad' performance we've put in was against defending champions Chelsea, half down to the injuries/fixture congestion (which we must learn to deal with) and half down to some poor tactics/performances.

So I'm baffled how you can't see the improvement we've made in the last 12 months.

The litmus test is finding a different way of playing without Lukaku. To do this, Koeman wanted another striker and we can all agree he's been let down in that regard. However, we still have a good squad and he must now show he has the skill - as he did at Saints - to work with that.

I can say it very easily, Toff.

By common consent we had "underachieved" with those two 11th place finishes......so making the leap to seventh was not like we bridged some Grand Canyoneasque chasm....welcome as it was.

But no great excuse for hanging out the bunting.

And whilst it is great we are in Europe......Lyon here I come .....the simple fact is that but for in unjustly disallowed goal for Saints in the EFL cup final that simple pleasure might have been denied us.

We are only in Europe because two of the qualifying spots went to teams which went into Europe by another route.

And whilst there is no denying that City are a very good side, they only had ten men for most the game and they gave us the runaround.

And Burnley beat Chelsea where we just went there to keep the score down. Go figure

But ultimately Toff, I judge things by what I see with my own eyes.

And this turgid stuff we have seen over six and a half competitive games, the first half versus Split being the exception, was evident for much of last season as well.....particularly away from home.

At the lower level clubs as well as them as finished above us.

I am not looking forward to Saturday's game with any great optimism I have to say, Toff.

And it was an awful lot further into Bobby's reign when such ominous feelings coloured my judgement

 

[Nymzee]

I can say it very easily, Toff.

By common consent we had "underachieved" with those two 11th place finishes......so making the leap to seventh was not like we bridged some Grand Canyoneasque chasm....welcome as it was.

But no great excuse for hanging out the bunting.

And whilst it is great we are in Europe......Lyon here I come .....the simple fact is that but for in unjustly disallowed goal for Saints in the EFL cup final that simple pleasure might have been denied us.

We are only in Europe because two of the qualifying spots went to teams which went into Europe by another route.

And whilst there is no denying that City are a very good side, they only had ten men for most the game and they gave us the runaround.

And Burnley beat Chelsea where we just went there to keep the score down. Go figure

But ultimately Toff, I judge things by what I see with my own eyes.

And this turgid stuff we have seen over six and a half competitive games, the first half versus Split being the exception, was evident for much of last season as well.....particularly away from home.

At the lower level clubs as well as them as finished above us.

I am not looking forward to Saturday's game with any great optimism I have to say, Toff.

And it was an awful lot further into Bobby's reign when such ominous feelings coloured my judgement

Love your positivity my man.