Ronald Koeman discussion

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toffeeblue9 said:
I think that's v simplistic

He wanted another striker, was almost certainly assured we would sign one, yet we didn't

We may even have needed the Lukaku sale before we signed the incoming striker for cash flow purposes, I don't know

It isn't Koeman's role to okay the order in which we sign/sell players in a window. His role is to tell Walsh what sort of player he wants, sign off on the targets presented to him, talk to the targets if necessary and agree which players are surplus to requirements
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May be very simplistic in your opinion but why does it have to be complicated.

We've signed x,y,z okay so a,b,c are surplus to requirement either sell or use as squad rotation.

We've got an abundance of squad players that we don't need now, we'll bring through U23 players thus allowing the sale of them.

We haven't got a striker yet, thus we'll not allow the sale of Lukaku until we have.

As you say we may have needed to sell Lukaku for reasons unknown to me and you, but all I've said is Koeman shouldn't be absolved of blame which is seemingly happening.
 
chicoazul said:
I reckon Lukaku 3 and King 2 coming right up. Can't see us winning away in Italy and only a spawns win v Sunderland.

Bournemouth could mark a new Koeman high tide of fume.
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Segueing wonderfully into our approach for Howe to become new boss

Yes.
 

Language
R934 said:
Liverpool: Coutinho
Arsenal: Sanchez
Southampton: VVD

Sell if a replacement is through the door.
We bolted at the first flury of activity from United. He was our player and under contract for 2 years not one - but that still didn't stop Arsenal.

I've little concern for him being sold (I lie I'd have kept him even if we'd signed another striker) but we really should have got a replacement in first.

It was shortsighted and has left us with a massively disjointed team.
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Basically, Koeman, under Walsh's guidance, has signed
th
 
toffeeblue9 said:
Think you're overstating the role that Koeman has in the whole process

We don't have a "manager" in the old-fashioned sense of the word. We might call him the manager, but to all intents and purposes, he is the head coach.

He can tell Walsh what sort of player he wants and, by his own admission, although he and Walsh should ideally agree on each signing, Walsh can go above his head and sign a player anyway if he wants to.

We clearly promised Lukaku last summer that he could leave if we didn't get into the CL and he wanted to go. Keeping him would have been breaking our word, which means a lot when you're wanting to sign players - if we go back on promises etc, it makes recruiting players who know about it more difficult.

I struggle to see why Lukaku leaving and us not signing a replacement is in any way Koeman's fault, given the division of responsibility at Everton nowadays - unless you blame Koeman for not getting a CL place last season (which I would suggest was unrealistic if so).
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The problem with this is if Koeman really is just a coach, his job must be under considerably more scrutiny than most people are suggesting, because at the moment we don't look like we're being coached at all.

If he gets a chunk of credit for bringing in Pickford, Keane, Gana etc then he's earning his keep, if we're saying he doesn't then it's extremely difficult to see exactly what we're paying him for. Rather than improve any of the players that were already here through his coaching, he's effectively just asked someone to go out and replace them all with supposedly better players. Then he's put them all out on the pitch with instructions which currently appear to be something along the lines of 'go and have a run lads, if the ball comes near you, kick it'.
 
Lanolin said:
The problem with this is if Koeman really is just a coach, his job must be under considerably more scrutiny than most people are suggesting, because at the moment we don't look like we're being coached at all.

If he gets a chunk of credit for bringing in Pickford, Keane, Gana etc then he's earning his keep, if we're saying he doesn't then it's extremely difficult to see exactly what we're paying him for. Rather than improve any of the players that were already here through his coaching, he's effectively just asked someone to go out and replace them all with supposedly better players. Then he's put them all out on the pitch with instructions which currently appear to be something along the lines of 'go and have a run lads, if the ball comes near you, kick it'.
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He is definitely a head coach though. I'm sure he even said as much when he signed on with us. Or maybe the opposite that he lets the coaches coach... now I'm just lost.
 

Moomin said:
You lot remind me of that scene in the motion picture starring Charlton Heston " The Ten Commandments "

When Moses goes off into the mountains to speak with God, the rubble of people start making a gold statue to worship as a new God.

Remember three years ago people? Moyes was so negative, Martinez is our new lord and so positive, can't wait for the season to start. Fast forward and Martinez chats a load of Tosh and Koeman is the new lord and savior.

You will all turn on him, remember that. You will turn on him.
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Moomin said:
You will all turn on him.

Remember that.
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Moomin said:
When you all turn on Koeman, you can throw lemon drizzle cake onto the pitch in disgust at him.
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Moomin said:
I remember when people moaned about Moyes's tactics against the so called big four and he got called negative.

The same people said how refreshing Martinez was.

I said in the summer, but I'll say it again to remind you all.

YOU WILL ALL TURN ON HIM.
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Moomin said:
It's the circle of two faced fans.

I remember everyone getting worried about Barca getting Martinez and that we need to offer him a new deal quick as possible.

Then he was crap, and you all moaned at his payoff when he left and it was you all who cried for it.

Same thing is going to happen here.

You will all turn on him in the end, it's what you do.
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From the seemingly ITK guy on the Betfair forum

Are you lads saying '' sack him''?

TBF, to Koeman he hasn't had much time to gel this team on the training pitch. I do believe he needs to pick his best team and stick with them, of course its not easy when you have 2 games a week but 2 at the back one game followed by 3 at the back isn't working. He needs to work with them , pick a team and move with them. They trained at Goodison today - hopefully that will have given some time to work on shape. Morgan needs to be a midfielder rather than sitting off deep and having no impact - his role in the third goal is the most recent example. And we need to choose which striker plays up top alone or change the system and play two.
I want to hear some harmony as well , Koeman not on the same sheet as the Under23 boss, nor it seems with Walsh. Unsy and Walsh seem to think Kenny is ready for first team action but the manager doesn't - but he's not that far away to be loaned out??

One thing that is for certain is the 9 signings were all Koeman's - if they weren't they'd be getting the same treatment as Oumar!We wouldn't be questioning his buys if the current players were performing but one question seems to be asked by all why no Kenny? We don't know if hes good enough but one thing I do know , if he (and Holgate) performed for the first month like Martina has would they have survived half time? The tough talking Dutchman seems to have selective decision making at full back - if Holgate was deemed not good enough - he was axed 5 times last season the same as Ross- and Kenny not ready, then why did we bring in a lad whom Southampton felt wasn't good enough? He is on record as say he's a stop gap - now we have a stop gap who isn't performing and two England u21 internationals disillusioned.
 

So it seems Koeman can't be directly responsible for anything negative, yet is given credit for positives, and anything in between we'll decided on a day-to-day basis. When in doubt throw comparisons to Martinez and Moyes about, that ought to sort the 'two faced fans' from one another.

Far from acting superior, why does everything have t fall one side or the other, why can't it be seen that Koeman can be blamed for his mistakes, the same way everyone else is seemingly held accountable but in differing orders of responsibility.
 

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