Ronald Koeman discussion

[Lanolin]

We lost Lineker and went on to win the league.
We lost Rooney and went on to finish 4th.
No one knows how this season is going to play out yet but 6 teams without Rom in their side fished above us last season and only one of them had a higher goalscorer.
We've been successful before Rom and I'm sure we will be again without him.

But you're taking the point out of context now.

The discussion started because you said we would beat teams 'easily'. I was saying we won't because we don't have the attacking prowess (or defensive strength) to beat teams easily. I'm not saying we can't win games at all, just that we'll have to do things a bit differently to how we've done it in the last couple of years. This wasn't supposed to suggest Lukaku was irreplaceable, simply that we've made a balls up of doing it.

The comparison with Rooney leaving is a good one, if you recall that season you'll know it was absolutely not built on beating teams easily. The Lineker comparison doesn't work because that team was filled with proven goalscorers anyway, and the point about sides above us is disingenuous and doesn't help your point as 5 of the 6 had a striker score at least 15 goals. I don't think we have a player who will do that.

 

[willo30]

Your wasting your time mate, some will not listen.
For me there is upside in putting Unsy in charge for the rest of the season - the club can shortlist candidates over the next 6 months.
Sadly we are going to go through an absolute charade of superfans of telling us that things will suddenly get better and the board not being seen to cave to fan pressure.
This season can be turned around but the only way that happens is to change the manager and replace him with Unsy or a top proven manager NOW otherwise we risk blowing a massive hole in the season if we let this run on any longer.

If it was to carry on for the next 3 games I'd probably be with you (not Unsworth though, that's just ridiculous) but to say because we caved against Utd, Chelsea and Spurs then we will do the same against the rest of the league is going too far.

 

[tim cahill]

Your wasting your time mate, some will not listen.
For me there is upside in putting Unsy in charge for the rest of the season - the club can shortlist candidates over the next 6 months.
Sadly we are going to go through an absolute charade of superfans of telling us that things will suddenly get better and the board not being seen to cave to fan pressure.
This season can be turned around but the only way that happens is to change the manager and replace him with Unsy or a top proven manager NOW otherwise we risk blowing a massive hole in the season if we let this run on any longer.

It's a bad patch and quite a predictable one. Koeman is a good manager. We need a bit more patience.

 

[jceverton]

We literally went 'somewhere' with Koeman last year though ffs

we went up four places and returned to Europe, with our best-ever home record and a bunch of young players coming into the side.

Four poor games - and yes, they've been bloody dreadful - and suddenly we're going nowhere????

Come on man

It's a matter of opinion at the end of day. I don't think he achieved anything last season that any competent manager like Pullis or Allardyce couldn't have done and I wouldn't want them managing us either. There's nothing in his managerial record or his time with us that makes me he think he can be a success. You think differently & only time will tell which of us is right.

 

[D410]

If it was to carry on for the next 3 games I'd probably be with you (not Unsworth though, that's just ridiculous) but to say because we caved against Utd, Chelsea and Spurs then we will do the same against the rest of the league is going too far.

I want him to succeed but my eyes tell me it,s not going to happen - we are wasting valuable time to find out if we can beat bottom of the table sides.

 

[jceverton]

You do realize that coaching a load of unknown youngsters to do well is way different to coaching a load of overpaid egos. I just don't think he'd get the respect or know how to handle them without going out and earning his stripes first.

This is always an issue for younger managers. At the end of the day if you're good enough you will win them over.

 

[D410]

It's a bad patch and quite a predictable one. Koeman is a good manager. We need a bit more patience.

It was always going to be a tough set of fixtures but the team selection, tactics, player selection and his criticism of the players goes far beyond your defence.

The man does not turn up to look at the U23 squad, does not bother with the training and spends his week on the golf course...and then blames the players for the results.

He has got to go..

 

[Saint Domingo]

You can add hammers to this list...could it be the fact that we are usually taken seriously?

I just don't think that top end sides like the ones in the prem with managers such as Mourinho Guardiola Conte etc. look at any game like an easy one but look at Everton differently. Other teams when they get into the position to win just think 'great, what a bonus, let's keep hold of this for a famous win'. When we are in a position to win our players start to look sick and the collective feeling everywhere seems to be 'oh no we might actually do it, we're going to mess it up again, it's going to happen, 5 mins added time? It'll definitely happen there, oh look it's happened, ah that's better, a nice away draw at the top 6 isn't bad for little old Everton'. Jagielka looked like he was going to vomit before he even got on the pitch at the last Derby.

 

[Khalekan]

We lost Lineker and went on to win the league.
We lost Rooney and went on to finish 4th.
No one knows how this season is going to play out yet but 6 teams without Rom in their side fished above us last season and only one of them had a higher goalscorer.
We've been successful before Rom and I'm sure we will be again without him.

We had Howard Kendall and David Moyes in charge of the team on both those occasions.

Both of whom were far better managers than Koeman IMO.

But particularly in regard to Lineker, when he left we already had a couple of half decent replacements on the books already.

Two lids name of Sharp and Heath

And when injury struck the manager and the board fetched in Wayne Clark to see us over the line.

Oh for a Carter and Kendall in situ today

Also Moysie.....lost his talisman but what dud he do?

He played round pegs in round holes and he adapted.

I would have the Moyes of 2005 before Koeman, that's for sure.

 

[willo30]

But you're taking the point out of context now.

The discussion started because you said we would beat teams 'easily'. I was saying we won't because we don't have the attacking prowess (or defensive strength) to beat teams easily. I'm not saying we can't win games at all, just that we'll have to do things a bit differently to how we've done it in the last couple of years. This wasn't supposed to suggest Lukaku was irreplaceable, simply that we've made a balls up of doing it.

The comparison with Rooney leaving is a good one, if you recall that season you'll know it was absolutely not built on beating teams easily. The Lineker comparison doesn't work because that team was filled with proven goalscorers anyway, and the point about sides above us is disingenuous and doesn't help your point as 5 of the 6 had a striker score at least 15 goals. I don't think we have a player who will do that.

The team last season was set up to play to Rom's strengths and he bagged 26. This season we have to set up differently to spread the goals around. Koeman has bought goalscorers in Rooney, Sandro, Gylfi and Klassan. We change our system to get the best out these and I can see 35+ goals from them. If we played the same system as last season I would agree with you that we are bang in trouble.

 

[Big Bob]

cant even be bothered to hold a press conf on league cup game, still...more time for eating and shouting at ross

Probably playing golf, the weather is ideal!

 

[willo30]

This is always an issue for younger managers. At the end of the day if you're good enough you will win them over.

It would be a gamble though. We are in the PL and still in the EL, there would be better managers than Unsworth queuing up for the job.

 

[blueblue]

It was always going to be a tough set of fixtures but the team selection, tactics, player selection and his criticism of the players goes far beyond your defence.

The man does not turn up to look at the U23 squad, does not bother with the training and spends his week on the golf course...and then blames the players for the results.

He has got to go..

With all due respect that is nonsense.

The last thing this club needs is instability. We have seen with too many other clubs how disastrous continually changing the manager can be.

We have one point less than than last season from the exact same fixtures.

Nobody is saying they are happy with the results or performances.
The way forward is to let management get on with the job of settling a completely new team. We are missing so many established players from last season and beyond all of whom would do a valuable job of strengthening the team. Coleman Funes Mori, Bolasie and McCarthy and even Barkley to name five.
If at Christmas things are still rocky, then look at the situation then.

 

[Lanolin]

The team last season was set up to play to Rom's strengths and he bagged 26. This season we have to set up differently to spread the goals around. Koeman has bought goalscorers in Rooney, Sandro, Gylfi and Klassan. We change our system to get the best out these and I can see 35+ goals from them. If we played the same system as last season I would agree with you that we are bang in trouble.

How's that working out? 2 in 5 in the league, 7 in 10 in all competitions. Only scored more than 1 once in 10 games. No goals in over 400 minutes of football. 35 goals from those 4 would just about match the 35 from Lukaku, Barkley, Valencia and Mirallas last year.

Again, you're assuming i'm saying something i'm not. I've not mentioned being in trouble, just that I can't see us suddenly clicking and winning a load of games 'easily' like you said we would. We'll turn this round, I have no doubt we will, but i'll be very surprised if we see as many 3-0, 4-0, 6-3 wins as we did last year. I think we'll have to get used to nailbiting games like we had under Moyes. It's no bad thing as long as we win them, although it will be a lot harder on the legs than the strolls in the park we had last year.

 

[D410]

With all due respect that is nonsense.

The last thing this club needs is instability. We have seen with too many other clubs how disastrous continually changing the manager can be.

We have one point less than than last season from the exact same fixtures.

Nobody is saying they are happy with the results or performances.
The way forward is to let management get on with the job of settling a completely new team. We are missing so many established players from last season and beyond all of whom would do a valuable job of strengthening the team. Coleman Funes Mori, Bolasie and McCarthy and even Barkley to name five.
If at Christmas things are still rocky, then look at the situation then.

None of it is..it,s the truth.
Nahhh I don,t need to wait to Dec to know it,s rocky - it on the rocks now.