Ronald Koeman discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.
Saint Domingo said:
I just don't think that top end sides like the ones in the prem with managers such as Mourinho Guardiola Conte etc. look at any game like an easy one but look at Everton differently. Other teams when they get into the position to win just think 'great, what a bonus, let's keep hold of this for a famous win'. When we are in a position to win our players start to look sick and the collective feeling everywhere seems to be 'oh no we might actually do it, we're going to mess it up again, it's going to happen, 5 mins added time? It'll definitely happen there, oh look it's happened, ah that's better, a nice away draw at the top 6 isn't bad for little old Everton'. Jagielka looked like he was going to vomit before he even got on the pitch at the last Derby.
Click to expand...
Yes, a mix of nervous junior with experienced bottler...
 

Saint Domingo said:
I just don't think that top end sides like the ones in the prem with managers such as Mourinho Guardiola Conte etc. look at any game like an easy one but look at Everton differently. Other teams when they get into the position to win just think 'great, what a bonus, let's keep hold of this for a famous win'. When we are in a position to win our players start to look sick and the collective feeling everywhere seems to be 'oh no we might actually do it, we're going to mess it up again, it's going to happen, 5 mins added time? It'll definitely happen there, oh look it's happened, ah that's better, a nice away draw at the top 6 isn't bad for little old Everton'. Jagielka looked like he was going to vomit before he even got on the pitch at the last Derby.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't play Jagielka or Baines in any derby again on past experiences. They are too psychologically damaged from past defeats, I would throw 2 youngsters in.
 
Lanolin said:
How's that working out? 2 in 5 in the league, 7 in 10 in all competitions. Only scored more than 1 once in 10 games. No goals in over 400 minutes of football. 35 goals from those 4 would just about match the 35 from Lukaku, Barkley, Valencia and Mirallas last year.

Again, you're assuming i'm saying something i'm not. I've not mentioned being in trouble, just that I can't see us suddenly clicking and winning a load of games 'easily' like you said we would. We'll turn this round, I have no doubt we will, but i'll be very surprised if we see as many 3-0, 4-0, 6-3 wins as we did last year. I think we'll have to get used to nailbiting games like we had under Moyes. It's no bad thing as long as we win them, although it will be a lot harder on the legs than the strolls in the park we had last year.
Click to expand...
Yes we won't get the 3's and 4s like last season as we seen on Sunday what Rom does to a team in the last few minutes that's on it's knees.
I'm more of a wait and see type of guy now we have the horrendous run of games out of the way. I'm expecting improvement all over the park as an hour on Sunday showed we had it.
 
BlueToff said:
It hasn't happened yet.

it'll need time. and hopefully it begins in the coming games that aren't against sides who finished top six last year!

The games vs Ruzomberok were late July and early August. That's pre-season, with players still working towards fitness.

Our first league game was against Stoke, a side that is renowned still for it's defensive solidity/approach.

Hajduk, likewise, were difficult games but in the home game we looked extremely dangerous and should have scored more.

The system and tactics against City were good.

The shape, system and tactics vs Chelsea and Spurs were poor and against United it was a case of a side serially lacking in any confidence not finishing off some good chances, as well as a negative set up at the start (but that's due to the low confidence you must see this!)

So give it time. More time.

We're playing with a front line that consists of a 22-year-old Spanish striker who has got to adapt to the English game, a 20-year-old who has two senior goals to his name and a 31-year-old Rooney who isn't the player he once was yet has probably been our most consistent performer so far (which says it all).

That's why the board let Koeman down in not getting another striker in, as that would have helped share the burden.

So don't say 'it hasn't happened' and write it off. You're better than that. It'll come, eventually. First and foremost it's about finding the right system and a settled side - which is down to the manager.
Click to expand...
I'm not writing anything off. I've said - repeatedly - that i'm sure we'll turn this around. We have to. Some of the players we have will get better as the season goes on, that's fine. I also agree that we're low on confidence, but I don't expect it to magically improve overnight. I think we'll be low on confidence on Saturday, and if we start the same way it will only get worse. At some point we'll get a break and snap out of it, we just have to hope it's soon.

You actually think the same as I do though, you're just determined to be relentlessly positive (which is admirable) whereas I'm trying to be realistic. The only point I was making is that we won't find things as easy as we did last year. You agree with that, you're on about the manager having been let down because you know we needed a new striker. That's all i'm saying, we definitely did and we didn't get one. It's a problem. Not insurmountable but a problem nonetheless. Once again, i'm not saying we can't win games, but the idea that we'll do it easily just isn't realistic. There is no indication that this team has a lot of goals in it, let's just accept that and try to win games whatever way we can.

That brings me to the last point. I don't think it will come. I think we'll improve, but I disagree - as I did when we had him - with the notion that Lukaku in any way hindered our attacking play. The argument was that we relied on him, and when he didn't turn up we were screwed. It was true to be fair. What was supposed to happen was that he would go and suddenly the goals would be shared out everywhere and we'd be a much better attacking unit. It hasn't happened though, and it won't. It's pie in the sky stuff, there's no chance 3-4 players are all getting us 12-15 goals this season. We've played 10 games and only 1 player has scored more than once. We still look like we're reliant on an individual to do something out of nothing to get us a goal, the only difference is we no longer have anyone capable of doing it.
 
Telegraph says he's going to be given time to turn it around.

FlawlessGlassHousefly-size_restricted.gif
 

willo30 said:
It would be a gamble though. We are in the PL and still in the EL, there would be better managers than Unsworth queuing up for the job.
Click to expand...
I'm arguing for a calculated gamble, give him a go for half a season or so and see how he gets on, then make a decision on full time post. We don't know how good or not he's going to be unless we give him a chance. Don't think there's much downside.
 
Lanolin said:
Nor can I, and I genuinely can't see Koeman ever getting to that stage.

I disagree that they're bonus points though. We'll play 12 games against those teams this season, and at the rate we're going that will bring us 3 points. That's just not enough. I've said it before but we will drop points against other teams. Our away record is awful so we'll definitely lose points there, but even at home, we won't beat everyone. We didn't last year and that was with the infamous king of flat track bullying banging them in for fun. We need to stop writing off every game against decent sides, it makes it virtually impossible to finish any higher than 7th.
Click to expand...

I completely agree with the importance of not going a goal down. We would be really up against it then. There's a real onus on the defenders to get the job right now. I think we'll be grinding out victories rather winning comfortably.
 
jceverton said:
I'm arguing for a calculated gamble, give him a go for half a season or so and see how he gets on, then make a decision on full time post. We don't know how good or not he's going to be unless we give him a chance. Don't think there's much downside.
Click to expand...
I'm saying we don't need to gamble anymore. The money we are willing to pay them now will have very good managers looking at us.

Leave Unsworth where he is doing a good job as if that goes wrong we will suffer.
 
Lanolin said:
I'm not writing anything off. I've said - repeatedly - that i'm sure we'll turn this around. We have to. Some of the players we have will get better as the season goes on, that's fine. I also agree that we're low on confidence, but I don't expect it to magically improve overnight. I think we'll be low on confidence on Saturday, and if we start the same way it will only get worse. At some point we'll get a break and snap out of it, we just have to hope it's soon.

You actually think the same as I do though, you're just determined to be relentlessly positive (which is admirable) whereas I'm trying to be realistic. The only point I was making is that we won't find things as easy as we did last year. You agree with that, you're on about the manager having been let down because you know we needed a new striker. That's all i'm saying, we definitely did and we didn't get one. It's a problem. Not insurmountable but a problem nonetheless. Once again, i'm not saying we can't win games, but the idea that we'll do it easily just isn't realistic. There is no indication that this team has a lot of goals in it, let's just accept that and try to win games whatever way we can.

That brings me to the last point. I don't think it will come. I think we'll improve, but I disagree - as I did when we had him - with the notion that Lukaku in any way hindered our attacking play. The argument was that we relied on him, and when he didn't turn up we were screwed. It was true to be fair. What was supposed to happen was that he would go and suddenly the goals would be shared out everywhere and we'd be a much better attacking unit. It hasn't happened though, and it won't. It's pie in the sky stuff, there's no chance 3-4 players are all getting us 12-15 goals this season. We've played 10 games and only 1 player has scored more than once. We still look like we're reliant on an individual to do something out of nothing to get us a goal, the only difference is we no longer have anyone capable of doing it.
Click to expand...

You can also throw Barkley into that mix.
 


Status
Not open for further replies.

Welcome

Join Grand Old Team to get involved in the Everton discussion. Signing up is quick, easy, and completely free.

Register

Shop

Back
Top