Ronald Koeman discussion

[Lanolin]

Rom got 13 in 5 games. That leaves 12 in the remaining 33 games. Yes he will be a miss but at times when he wasn't scoring he wasn't offering anything else.

So he scored in 17 different games in total. Basically every other game. I will put good money on it that none of our players get near that this year.

Let's stop pretending we won't miss Lukaku, we will and we are. All the talk that we would become a more complete team has proven to be complete rubbish. The mythical sharing round of goals hasn't happened, our hold up play hasn't improved, the movement has quite obviously got worse, with players often being caught on the ball looking for a run that never comes. He had his weaknesses but he was very good, and very important to us. For all the talk of him piling in the goals after someone else had broken the deadlock (which can actually be proved to be incorrect, and shows a basic lack of understanding of the game of football anyway, but that's a different argument) he put a number of games to bed last year when we were a goal up with 10-15 minutes left. I suspect we might find those games turning into 1-1 draws rather than 4-0 wins now.

 

[Saint Domingo]

Nor can I, and I genuinely can't see Koeman ever getting to that stage.

I disagree that they're bonus points though. We'll play 12 games against those teams this season, and at the rate we're going that will bring us 3 points. That's just not enough. I've said it before but we will drop points against other teams. Our away record is awful so we'll definitely lose points there, but even at home, we won't beat everyone. We didn't last year and that was with the infamous king of flat track bullying banging them in for fun. We need to stop writing off every game against decent sides, it makes it virtually impossible to finish any higher than 7th.

That mentality is ingrained in the club and the fan base sadly. Every other club below us (normally) when they see Chelsea United or any of the top 6 on the fixture list they think 'hello, free swing here lads, pressure is on them let's give them a bloody nose'. Every team above us thinks 'we're the best team in the league and should be beating these'. We're the sole exception who think 'crap well we're not winning that, look at the quality they've got, we'll have to play for a draw at best but really a club like Everton can't expect better than that at a club like x'. It has seeped right through the club to the point where we now have a manager and club captain who think we belong in 7th shouldn't be thinking of top 4 and should expect to win away st top sides.

 

[BlueToff]

That mentality is ingrained in the club and the fan base sadly. Every other club below us (normally) when they see Chelsea United or any of the top 6 on the fixture list they think 'hello, free swing here lads, pressure is on them let's give them a bloody nose'. Every team above us thinks 'we're the best team in the league and should be beating these'. We're the sole exception who think 'crap well we're not winning that, look at the quality they've got, we'll have to play for a draw at best but really a club like Everton can't expect better than that at a club like x'. It has seeped right through the club to the point where we now have a manager and club captain who think we belong in 7th shouldn't be thinking of top 4 and should expect to win away st top sides.

You've fallen into the trap there of making a generic sweeping statement mate.

It may feel like 'Everton are the only ones', etc, but if you take a look at what other club's fans say, then you'd be surprised.

We've been crap recently. The manager has got it very wrong and should be under pressure to get it right. He's also said some stuff that didn't need saying but it's done now. Let's move on and hopefully get four wins from the next four games. They're needed.

 

[willo30]

So he scored in 17 different games in total. Basically every other game. I will put good money on it that none of our players get near that this year.

Let's stop pretending we won't miss Lukaku, we will and we are. All the talk that we would become a more complete team has proven to be complete rubbish. The mythical sharing round of goals hasn't happened, our hold up play hasn't improved, the movement has quite obviously got worse, with players often being caught on the ball looking for a run that never comes. He had his weaknesses but he was very good, and very important to us. For all the talk of him piling in the goals after someone else had broken the deadlock (which can actually be proved to be incorrect, and shows a basic lack of understanding of the game of football anyway, but that's a different argument) he put a number of games to bed last year when we were a goal up with 10-15 minutes left. I suspect we might find those games turning into 1-1 draws rather than 4-0 wins now.

I said he'd be a miss but what can Koeman do when he wants to go and the board want to sell. Not a lot but get on with it. Yes it's an issue but not of Koeman's making.

 

[Lanolin]

I said he'd be a miss but what can Koeman do when he wants to go and the board want to sell. Not a lot but get on with it. Yes it's an issue but not of Koeman's making.

I'm not saying it is, I was just responding to your suggestion that he wasn't really a big miss by pointing out that he absolutely is.

I honestly think people might be in for a bit of a shock with these upcoming games. The regular 3 and 4 goal wins at home last year just aren't going to happen with this team, we don't have the firepower. The idea that we'll just start leathering teams now has no basis in reality, we laboured to a win over Ruzomberok thanks to a deflected goal and an outstanding piece of goalkeeping but people are convinced we're going to smash Burnley into next week despite Chelsea, Spurs and Liverpool all failing to beat them.

 

[Saint Domingo]

You've fallen into the trap there of making a generic sweeping statement mate.

It may feel like 'Everton are the only ones', etc, but if you take a look at what other club's fans say, then you'd be surprised.

We've been crap recently. The manager has got it very wrong and should be under pressure to get it right. He's also said some stuff that didn't need saying but it's done now. Let's move on and hopefully get four wins from the next four games. They're needed.

I agree with you on the last part, still far too early to judge Koeman. Our problems at big teams and away games in general is not new under him though. We have probably the worst away record for wins at top 6 grounds if anyone in the league and we've probably had more cracks at them than anyone else as well.

Off the top of my head:

Villa have won away at Emirates and Anfield in recent time

Palace have won at Chelsea Liverpool and Arsenal recently

Wigan have won at Anfield and Emirates too

Burnley at Stamford Bridge

Southampton at Anfield Stamford Bridge Etihad

They're just off the top of my head. Rubbish teams go away to the top 6 and win, happens every season, obviously it's not always the same team doing it but most teams have got recent wins at most grounds in their memory. We are the exception, it doesn't happen to us, we don't get that day when we catch one off guard and we're on firm, or we luck out, dodgy ref, weekend after european game etc. We were 1 up at City v ten men and still it wasn't our day. 1 up at Stamford Bridge and the Emirates numerous times after 90 mins and couldn't convert one of them into a win. The less said about Anfield the better. It's a disease in the club.

 

[kenada_blue]

So he scored in 17 different games in total. Basically every other game. I will put good money on it that none of our players get near that this year.

Let's stop pretending we won't miss Lukaku, we will and we are. All the talk that we would become a more complete team has proven to be complete rubbish. The mythical sharing round of goals hasn't happened, our hold up play hasn't improved, the movement has quite obviously got worse, with players often being caught on the ball looking for a run that never comes. He had his weaknesses but he was very good, and very important to us. For all the talk of him piling in the goals after someone else had broken the deadlock (which can actually be proved to be incorrect, and shows a basic lack of understanding of the game of football anyway, but that's a different argument) he put a number of games to bed last year when we were a goal up with 10-15 minutes left. I suspect we might find those games turning into 1-1 draws rather than 4-0 wins now.

That's why I don't buy not buying a striker has killed us from Koeman's perspective.

He spent the money we had on players he feels can get 10+ goals from around the pitch. It's backfired.

The striker issue wasn't apparent until preseason where he looked and thought "we need a striker". Then Mori's injury added to the need to another defender. Hence why we never really looked to fight to buy a striker and go bargin basement for defenders.

He feels Klassen, Sig, Sandro, Rooney can get us goals.

 

[davids]

Rom got 13 in 5 games. That leaves 12 in the remaining 33 games. Yes he will be a miss but at times when he wasn't scoring he wasn't offering anything else.

Sadly at the moment we aren't offering anything at all (from anywhere)

 

[davids]

TBH I know it was an end of season game, against a relegated Norwich, but those 90 mins under Unsy were some of the most refreshing I've seen in a long time from us. McCarthy breaking forward, Dowell Barkley and Davies all looking liberated.

Payers playing in their correct positions too.

 

[willo30]

I'm not saying it is, I was just responding to your suggestion that he wasn't really a big miss by pointing out that he absolutely is.

I honestly think people might be in for a bit of a shock with these upcoming games. The regular 3 and 4 goal wins at home last year just aren't going to happen with this team, we don't have the firepower. The idea that we'll just start leathering teams now has no basis in reality, we laboured to a win over Ruzomberok thanks to a deflected goal and an outstanding piece of goalkeeping but people are convinced we're going to smash Burnley into next week despite Chelsea, Spurs and Liverpool all failing to beat them.

We lost Lineker and went on to win the league.
We lost Rooney and went on to finish 4th.
No one knows how this season is going to play out yet but 6 teams without Rom in their side fished above us last season and only one of them had a higher goalscorer.
We've been successful before Rom and I'm sure we will be again without him.

 

[Igrok]

I agree with you on the last part, still far too early to judge Koeman. Our problems at big teams and away games in general is not new under him though. We have probably the worst away record for wins at top 6 grounds if anyone in the league and we've probably had more cracks at them than anyone else as well.

Off the top of my head:

Villa have won away at Emirates and Anfield in recent time

Palace have won at Chelsea Liverpool and Arsenal recently

Wigan have won at Anfield and Emirates too

Burnley at Stamford Bridge

Southampton at Anfield Stamford Bridge Etihad

They're just off the top of my head. Rubbish teams go away to the top 6 and win, happens every season, obviously it's not always the same team doing it but most teams have got recent wins at most grounds in their memory. We are the exception, it doesn't happen to us, we don't get that day when we catch one off guard and we're on firm, or we luck out, dodgy ref, weekend after european game etc. We were 1 up at City v ten men and still it wasn't our day. 1 up at Stamford Bridge and the Emirates numerous times after 90 mins and couldn't convert one of them into a win. The less said about Anfield the better. It's a disease in the club.

You can add hammers to this list...could it be the fact that we are usually taken seriously?

 

[jceverton]

TBH I know it was an end of season game, against a relegated Norwich, but those 90 mins under Unsy were some of the most refreshing I've seen in a long time from us. McCarthy breaking forward, Dowell Barkley and Davies all looking liberated.

They were and I think it would be worth giving him a chance in a caretaker role to see how he does. I think we are going nowhere with Koeman. We might just go somewhere with Unsworth.

 

[BlueToff]

So he scored in 17 different games in total. Basically every other game. I will put good money on it that none of our players get near that this year.

Let's stop pretending we won't miss Lukaku, we will and we are. All the talk that we would become a more complete team has proven to be complete rubbish. The mythical sharing round of goals hasn't happened, our hold up play hasn't improved, the movement has quite obviously got worse, with players often being caught on the ball looking for a run that never comes. He had his weaknesses but he was very good, and very important to us. For all the talk of him piling in the goals after someone else had broken the deadlock (which can actually be proved to be incorrect, and shows a basic lack of understanding of the game of football anyway, but that's a different argument) he put a number of games to bed last year when we were a goal up with 10-15 minutes left. I suspect we might find those games turning into 1-1 draws rather than 4-0 wins now.

It hasn't happened yet.

it'll need time. and hopefully it begins in the coming games that aren't against sides who finished top six last year!

The games vs Ruzomberok were late July and early August. That's pre-season, with players still working towards fitness.

Our first league game was against Stoke, a side that is renowned still for it's defensive solidity/approach.

Hajduk, likewise, were difficult games but in the home game we looked extremely dangerous and should have scored more.

The system and tactics against City were good.

The shape, system and tactics vs Chelsea and Spurs were poor and against United it was a case of a side serially lacking in any confidence not finishing off some good chances, as well as a negative set up at the start (but that's due to the low confidence you must see this!)

So give it time. More time.

We're playing with a front line that consists of a 22-year-old Spanish striker who has got to adapt to the English game, a 20-year-old who has two senior goals to his name and a 31-year-old Rooney who isn't the player he once was yet has probably been our most consistent performer so far (which says it all).

That's why the board let Koeman down in not getting another striker in, as that would have helped share the burden.

So don't say 'it hasn't happened' and write it off. You're better than that. It'll come, eventually. First and foremost it's about finding the right system and a settled side - which is down to the manager.

 

[BlueToff]

They were and I think it would be worth giving him a chance in a caretaker role to see how he does. I think we are going nowhere with Koeman. We might just go somewhere with Unsworth.

We literally went 'somewhere' with Koeman last year though ffs

we went up four places and returned to Europe, with our best-ever home record and a bunch of young players coming into the side.

Four poor games - and yes, they've been bloody dreadful - and suddenly we're going nowhere????

Come on man

 

[willo30]

They were and I think it would be worth giving him a chance in a caretaker role to see how he does. I think we are going nowhere with Koeman. We might just go somewhere with Unsworth.

You do realize that coaching a load of unknown youngsters to do well is way different to coaching a load of overpaid egos. I just don't think he'd get the respect or know how to handle them without going out and earning his stripes first.