Ronald Koeman discussion

[BlueToff]

So apart from losing what was widely recognised their best player, and their second top scorer, and now their injured goalkeeper - usually seen as their second best player - they've got exactly the same squad? What have the romans ever done for them?

The excuse doesn't wash mate. We could put out a balanced team of players that were here last year without any problem whatsoever. If the only problem is that the players haven't had time to gel then use the players you've got who don't have that issue. Easy. We both know that isn't the issue though, so there's no point putting it forward as an excuse.

Heaton literally got injured in two games ago though mate? It's not like he's been out all season.

Yes, they have got pretty much a balanced squad.

Gray was in-and-out of the side last year which is why he was sold. Keane obviously was a massively important player for them but it doesn't change the fact that the core of the squad are players who have played under the manager and know exactly what is required of them in certain games.

They ride their luck and have got some luck. They've played well in the big games and that's why they've got the points.

10 games is nothing. Not when you're gelling 8 new players into a side.

Koeman's mistake, imo, is trying to fit too many of the new signings in at once, rather than having three or four in and then utilising the rest sparingly as to bed them in slowly.

So of course it's an issue. You can't say it isn't. It's not 'the only' reason, but it's a contributing factor, along with poor tactics, poor performances and a poor end to the transfer window.

 

[Timak]

I'll stick with my stance I've had from Koeman from the start.

He is a competent manager, can organise a team well defensively, usually gets them fit but his teams are patchy, bad runs followed by good runs. His personality is a worry, he has a long history of fall outs and holding grudges.

My major concern post-Moyes was that our recruitment quality would go down a lot. The thing with having no money is that you are forced to properly scout your signings (in person and by analytics), this means you might miss out on a few who go on to do well but that most of your signings work out. Since we've had more cash our success rate with signings has gone down massively. We are buying players who don't fit into the managers system, yet have gaping holes in the first choice XI. It isn't just about strikers, midfield completely unbalanced, no width, fullback cover non-existent, weak at centre back.

None of us know if that fault lies with Koeman or Walsh.

What I do know is that Koeman is facing his trickiest period as a PL manager. Can he do a Moyes (who let us remember got us 5th and a cup final with no strikers for 95% of the season) or will be just sulk and fall out with even more players?

 

[Lanolin]

Heaton literally got injured in two games ago though mate? It's not like he's been out all season.

Yes, they have got pretty much a balanced squad.

Gray was in-and-out of the side last year which is why he was sold. Keane obviously was a massively important player for them but it doesn't change the fact that the core of the squad are players who have played under the manager and know exactly what is required of them in certain games.

They ride their luck and have got some luck. They've played well in the big games and that's why they've got the points.

10 games is nothing. Not when you're gelling 8 new players into a side.

Koeman's mistake, imo, is trying to fit too many of the new signings in at once, rather than having three or four in and then utilising the rest sparingly as to bed them in slowly.

So of course it's an issue. You can't say it isn't. It's not 'the only' reason, but it's a contributing factor, along with poor tactics, poor performances and a poor end to the transfer window.

But again we're taking the entire point out of context in an attempt to justify what's being said.

All that was being put forward is that Burnley have managed to get decent results against good sides despite everyone telling us that it's impossible and losing 9-0 on aggregate to Chelsea, United and Spurs is perfectly acceptable.

Again. you're trying to argue with me despite actually agreeing with what I'm saying. I've literally just said that having so many new players can't be used as an excuse because a) It was his choice to buy so many b) We don't need to play them all at once c) EVERY other team has bought new players. You've then replied saying you think the biggest issue is playing loads of new players when we don't need to. Well don't then, I just said that. We see things very similarly, but I just don't see the need to try to make excuses for everything.

As an aside, Gray made 32 starts last year, and had a 4 game ban. Your definition of 'in and out of the side' is evidently rather different to mine. Heaton was injured for their trip to Anfield, where they got a decent result so was included in the point.

 

[kenada_blue]

There is absolutely no indication that any of the players feel this way, though.

It's been a crap last four games but that's all it is - three of which have been against last season's top six.

So, can we all just chill?

You're chatting wham if you're comparing this situation now to his stint at Valencia a DECADE ago.

He's changed. The game's changed.

Four games on the bounce have been awful. If, after another four games, we haven't started to turn it around (ideally, four wins), then it may be time to panic.

The whole Valencia team, Mane, Tadic, Pelle, Mirallas, Barkley, Lennon have all had documented run ins and altercations with him or been dropped for "attitude".

The feller rules with an iron hand with only his playing career to back his ego. He'll never be a top manager because of it.

 

[ryanbeno80]

It's worth noting that Koeman's stint of 'failure' at Valencia resulted in more trophies than the last 5 managers (not inc Rhino) put together.

 

[BlueToff]

But again we're taking the entire point out of context in an attempt to justify what's being said.

All that was being put forward is that Burnley have managed to get decent results against good sides despite everyone telling us that it's impossible and losing 9-0 on aggregate to Chelsea, United and Spurs is perfectly acceptable.

Again. you're trying to argue with me despite actually agreeing with what I'm saying. I've literally just said that having so many new players can't be used as an excuse because a) It was his choice to buy so many b) We don't need to play them all at once c) EVERY other team has bought new players. You've then replied saying you think the biggest issue is playing loads of new players when we don't need to. Well don't then, I just said that. We see things very similarly, but I just don't see the need to try to make excuses for everything.

As an aside, Gray made 32 starts last year, and had a 4 game ban. Your definition of 'in and out of the side' is evidently rather different to mine. Heaton was injured for their trip to Anfield, where they got a decent result so was included in the point.

I'm not sure anyone is saying that? If they are, they shouldn't be.

But I just don't like using other sides as an example when it's not really a comparable situation to us either.

I'm not making excuses either mate. Genuinely feel Koeman has got loads wrong this season so far. There are caveats though. But at the end of the day it's down to him, and the players he selects, to step up. That has to start tonight.

On the Gray point, he was often subbed off last year I believe. He made over 30 starts yes, but after a fast start to the season never really kicked on.

He'd be a better option than what we currently have up front, like :/

 

[Rudolf Hucker]

The thought of having to go there tonight is a real chore.

 

[jceverton]

The whole Valencia team, Mane, Tadic, Pelle, Mirallas, Barkley, Lennon have all had documented run ins and altercations with him or been dropped for "attitude".

The feller rules with an iron hand with only his playing career to back his ego. He'll never be a top manager because of it.

Spot on and this is one of the problems. If you're exceptional, like Ferguson, you can get away with this. Koeman isn't and this approach reveals one of his shortcomings.

 

[kenada_blue]

It's worth noting that Koeman's stint of 'failure' at Valencia resulted in more trophies than the last 5 managers (not inc Rhino) put together.

Martinez won an FA Cup once.

 

[DualityNSNO]

Martinez won an FA Cup once.

And the Relegation trophy and the 72 points trophy.

 

[kenada_blue]

And the Relegation trophy and the 72 points trophy.

True

Ronko holds the £200mill transfer spend trophy

 

[DualityNSNO]

True

Ronko holds the £200mill transfer spend trophy

But Boberto also has the Least home wins in our history trophy!

 

[MikeH72]

Heaton literally got injured in two games ago though mate? It's not like he's been out all season.

Yes, they have got pretty much a balanced squad.

Gray was in-and-out of the side last year which is why he was sold. Keane obviously was a massively important player for them but it doesn't change the fact that the core of the squad are players who have played under the manager and know exactly what is required of them in certain games.

They ride their luck and have got some luck. They've played well in the big games and that's why they've got the points.

10 games is nothing. Not when you're gelling 8 new players into a side.

Koeman's mistake, imo, is trying to fit too many of the new signings in at once, rather than having three or four in and then utilising the rest sparingly as to bed them in slowly.

So of course it's an issue. You can't say it isn't. It's not 'the only' reason, but it's a contributing factor, along with poor tactics, poor performances and a poor end to the transfer window.

You say that, but I don't think we bought anywhere near enough players in the summer. We should have a new centre forward, another centre back, and a left back to also bed into the team.

 

[BlueToff]

You say that, but I don't think we bought anywhere near enough players in the summer. We should have a new centre forward, another centre back, and a left back to also bed into the team.

True.

It's why another prove quality CF had to be sorted and it's a disgrace it wasn't.

If we at least had goals or the chance to mix it up etc, then it'd give the players more time to settle without the pressure of where the next goal is going to come from.

 

[People75]

Well, we shouldn't have outlaid such an amount of money to not at least hit the same finish as last season, mate.

Top 6 isn't unrealistic. But, it's going to be extremely tough. We need to find a way of playing and some consistency pretty quickly, either way.

True enough, but the amount (130mill£) bourght us, almost an intierly new team, plus a lot of U23 players. That is not soo bad.

The next two transfers, should ad a striker and a replacement for Bains, perhaps sell two midfielders, and the upcomming seasons will be full of hope.

Top six is realistic, i agree. Given the players we have, is should be possible