Ronald Koeman discussion

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When you weigh the situation up, this "new era" at Everton is actually proving to be nothing of the sort.

Yesterday, we took to the pitch and ended the game with players who being honest, would not get a sniff in any of the top 6 sides.

Niasse is a trier god love him, but nothing more than that.
DCL is improving and will be a very decent striker, but he is not ready to lead the line consistently for a club with so called top 6 ambition.
Kenny looked a bit thrown to the wolves.
Rooney would not be anything more than a sub for the teams in the top 6.
Davies looks like he has something but needs proper guidance.
Vlasic looks the same as Davies and to expect him to be our saviour is unrealistic.
Williams has completely gone at the game.
Jags is probably one season too many.
Martina on the bench etc etc

I suppose when you look at it like that, it is 40% of the starting line up and it is no wonder we are struggling.
 

I’ve got to be honest here – I think he is self-sabotaging. There is absolutely no way any manager would change the starting line-up/formation as often as Koeman has. He seems to be deliberately keeping an unsettled side.

The only person that apparently cannot see this is the problem is Koeman. I honestly don’t think he is that clueless.

Koeman knows how to set up without a Lukaku type in the team. He is refusing to do that, just to prove a point - “You didn’t get me a Lukaku replacement – this is your fault”. He didn’t expect to still be here, because he over-estimated the ambition of our board (or under-estimated Moshiri’s nerve).

Someone mentioned earlier – tongue in cheek – that it was a game of chess between Koeman and Moshiri. I don’t think that statement is very far from the truth. He wants out, but not without his compensation.

Also, just as a footnote – In the same fixtures last year, Lukaku had scored six goals (four of them against Bournemouth). Rooney, this season has scored three, with Niasse also scoring three. We picked up fifteen points, compared to seven points this season. To me, that suggests that we have replaced the Lukaku goals. The problems lie with selection, formation and tactics. This is all on Koeman. No one knows what they are supposed to be doing, because, as mentioned previously – he, for whatever reason, keeps changing it.


Rant over.
 
Thomasc said:
When you weigh the situation up, this "new era" at Everton is actually proving to be nothing of the sort.

Yesterday, we took to the pitch and ended the game with players who being honest, would not get a sniff in any of the top 6 sides.

Niasse is a trier god love him, but nothing more than that.
DCL is improving and will be a very decent striker, but he is not ready to lead the line consistently for a club with so called top 6 ambition.
Kenny looked a bit thrown to the wolves.
Rooney would not be anything more than a sub for the teams in the top 6.
Davies looks like he has something but needs proper guidance.
Vlasic looks the same as Davies and to expect him to be our saviour is unrealistic.
Williams has completely gone at the game.
Jags is probably one season too many.
Martina on the bench etc etc

I suppose when you look at it like that, it is 40% of the starting line up and it is no wonder we are struggling.
Click to expand...

The reality is the aging members of the squad need replacing now as well. We should not have put all the eggs in one basket ie Sigurdsson and some others. We usually got it wrong when we spent big on players. The transfer model under Moyes, in general seemed to work better for this club.
 
Thomasc said:
When you weigh the situation up, this "new era" at Everton is actually proving to be nothing of the sort.

Yesterday, we took to the pitch and ended the game with players who being honest, would not get a sniff in any of the top 6 sides.

Niasse is a trier god love him, but nothing more than that.
DCL is improving and will be a very decent striker, but he is not ready to lead the line consistently for a club with so called top 6 ambition.
Kenny looked a bit thrown to the wolves.
Rooney would not be anything more than a sub for the teams in the top 6.
Davies looks like he has something but needs proper guidance.
Vlasic looks the same as Davies and to expect him to be our saviour is unrealistic.
Williams has completely gone at the game.
Jags is probably one season too many.
Martina on the bench etc etc

I suppose when you look at it like that, it is 40% of the starting line up and it is no wonder we are struggling.
Click to expand...
Again and again....we don't struggle coz of players..
 
How does compensation work in this case? I presume that it is explicitly stated in the contract between Everton and Koeman. When Moyes left United, he was limited to 1 year payout. Is there something similar in our managerial contracts? If there is a prolonged period of under-performance is there a cachet for reducing the payout?

I am expecting that the likes of Daniel Levy at Spurs is a harder nosed businessman than Suntan Bob or Bill but I would have thought that Moshiri was more exposed to a harder business reality than that pair and would insist on something tougher. I hope that Koeman's cost of dismissal would be limited to rather less than the remaining time on his contract, as this would still be more than most of us ever could dream of earning in a life time.

If Koeman goes, does his coaching staff go with him en masse? Erwin Koeman I would presume would go as it would be tantamount to constructive dismissal otherwise. But what about the likes of Duncan - with all due respect he has been part of 2 failed regimes - that type of taint will be unable to ignore.

A lot of things to do prior to his removal I guess. And that's without getting his replacement into place, though I would have hoped that we had a plan for how to do this with minimal disruption and the wheels had been turning a few matches ago. It may well be that it is, and that we're in the middle of a several week plan which needs accelerating as the complete capitulation of this side has accelerated more than should have been expected.

What a rubbish Monday.
 

Toffe3m4n said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/41719700?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=59eda91ee4b079cff57a1e6d&Is this the Everton team Koeman should pick?&&ns_fee=0#post_59eda91ee4b079cff57a1e6d
Click to expand...

That is just causing the same issues as we always have which is no width and in turn absolutely screws up our full backs

Pick any 2 from Mirallas, Lookman, Lennon or Vlasic ( left hand side only ) with Baines left back and Kenny right back. Calvert Lewin up top with either Rooney just behind or Gylfi or Vlasic and one of Gueye, Morgan or McCarthy partnered with either Davies or Vlasic.

4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1 with players in their proper positions and understand their roles and we'd be absolutely fine

We simply can't play this 4-3-3 or 5-3-2 or 3-5-2 as the full backs can't provide the width for fear of either the gaps left behind them or lack of options in front of them.
 
Yarrgh said:
How does compensation work in this case? I presume that it is explicitly stated in the contract between Everton and Koeman. When Moyes left United, he was limited to 1 year payout. Is there something similar in our managerial contracts? If there is a prolonged period of under-performance is there a cachet for reducing the payout?

I am expecting that the likes of Daniel Levy at Spurs is a harder nosed businessman than Suntan Bob or Bill but I would have thought that Moshiri was more exposed to a harder business reality than that pair and would insist on something tougher. I hope that Koeman's cost of dismissal would be limited to rather less than the remaining time on his contract, as this would still be more than most of us ever could dream of earning in a life time.

If Koeman goes, does his coaching staff go with him en masse? Erwin Koeman I would presume would go as it would be tantamount to constructive dismissal otherwise. But what about the likes of Duncan - with all due respect he has been part of 2 failed regimes - that type of taint will be unable to ignore.

A lot of things to do prior to his removal I guess. And that's without getting his replacement into place, though I would have hoped that we had a plan for how to do this with minimal disruption and the wheels had been turning a few matches ago. It may well be that it is, and that we're in the middle of a several week plan which needs accelerating as the complete capitulation of this side has accelerated more than should have been expected.

What a rubbish Monday.
Click to expand...


I would say the contract situation with Moyes at United was vastly different to what Koeman has here.

Moyes would have crawled to OT on his hands and knees and signed the contract with his own blood, agreeing to just about owt they insisted on writing into it.

Koeman, on the other hand, was only persuaded to come here at the end of a protracted saga which ended up with all kinds of ridiculous money being chucked at him and at Saints to release him from his contract there.

Moshiri became obsessed with the notion of “four elite managers in the north west”.

Even when Ronald deigned to accept the job, he couldn't be arsed breaking off from his holiday to come and sign up in a fanfare of trumpets.

In those circumstances, I would be willing to bet Koeman as good as wrote his own contract and that he has a full pay out in the event of dismissal at the very heart of it.
 

maccavennie said:
My missus said a few minutes ago Jim White on his talksport show had said he was surprised Koeman hasn't been sacked yet as his sources said he would be?? By saying his sources, surely he means Moshiri.

Anyone else hear this?
Click to expand...


No, I have not tuned in today.

I have no stomach for watching owt about football, listening to owt about football or reading owt about football right now.

GOT is my only contact with football this morning.

So it is very interesting that Mrs. Mac is reporting Jimbo as having said that, Mac.

He is, as we know by now, Moshiri’s go to guy, so I am taking that as a sign the end is indeed nigh.

Well spotted, that woman ;)
 
Khalekan said:
No, I have not tuned in today.

I have no stomach for watching owt about football, listening to owt about football or reading owt about football right now.

GOT is my only contact with football this morning.

So it is very interesting that Mrs. Mac is reporting Jimbo as having said that, Mac.

He is, as we know by now, Moshiri’s go to guy, so I am taking that as a sign the end is indeed nigh.

Well spotted, that woman ;)
Click to expand...

She mentioned that he's mentioned Sam Allardyce a few times K lol
 

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