Sam Allardyce

[Lanolin]

He's completed what he was asked to do so as much as the football is crap and we all want him gone what message are we sending the world of football if we bin a man for succeeding where we asked him to?

I just can't see how the club justifies it to anyone to sack him.

Because we're effectively saying you've done the minimum we asked which we thank you for, but we don't think you're the man to lead us to the next stage so we're off to get someone who can. It's the exact call that all successful football clubs and businesses make all the time, and if we want to become one of them we need to do the same. Saying 'oh you did quite well there, why don't have another go and we'll see how it pans out' is absolutely not the MO of a successful operation.

 

[bcblue1878]

He's completed what he was asked to do so as much as the football is crap and we all want him gone what message are we sending the world of football if we bin a man for succeeding where we asked him to?

I just can't see how the club justifies it to anyone to sack him.

To play devils advocate I'll flip that round and say "what message are we sending the world of football (and more importantly Everton fans worldwide!) if he's still here on August 1st?"

My hope is that all parties involved knew that the appointment of Allardyce was only ever a holding position until the end of the season, and the fact that he got an eighteen month deal was only ever a PR exercise. Ideally, in my little world, they have spent the last four months actually doing their homework and putting in place a process which will put mean an announcement on the new man sooner rather than later!

And then I woke up and remembered this was Everton I was talking about!

 

[MrGrumpy]

He's completed what he was asked to do so as much as the football is crap and we all want him gone what message are we sending the world of football if we bin a man for succeeding where we asked him to?

I just can't see how the club justifies it to anyone to sack him.

If he stay, which he won’t, say bye bye Lookman and Vlasic

 

[Toffe3m4n]

He's completed what he was asked to do so as much as the football is crap and we all want him gone what message are we sending the world of football if we bin a man for succeeding where we asked him to?

I just can't see how the club justifies it to anyone to sack him.

The fans don't want him. That should be all the justification they need.

 

[EFC78]

It’s not either or though. Martinez was dross, Koeman was dross, so is Allardyce. They were 3 poorly thought out recruits who shouldn’t have been Everton manager. It’s a worrying trend though. Since Harvey took over from Kendall I we’ve arguably had 2 good appointments in Royle and Moyes. The rest have basically done their best to relegate us. The next appointment needs to be far better.

I will not accept though that Martinez’s blend of awful football spun as ‘taking the game to the opposotion’ Is the answer for Everton. We didn’t take the game to Liverpool in 2 record 4-0 losses in 3 seasons. In fact apart from his first Derby we didn’t ever take the game to some of the poorest Liverpool sides in 14/15 and 15/16, one game in particular at Goodison we didn’t have a shot until after the 90th minute and set up to get a 0-0 against the likes of Balotelli Lambert Origi. We didn’t take the game to Southampton losing 3-0 without making a sub. We didn’t take the game to relegation Newcastle when we flukes our way in front through Kone and every man and his dog knew we’d still lose to a side that was going down because we were just that awfully poor. We didn’t take the game home or away to Dynamo Kiev. We didn’t take the game to Swansea in the league cup or West Ham in the FA cup, or Arsenal in the QF of the FA cup or Fulham in the league cup.

Memories of the first 3/4 of 13/14 in the league and a big home win over Arsenal are great but what followed was arguably (along with this season) some of the worst football of our prem existence which given the talent available to us was criminal. Quite simply without Lukaku we may well have been seriously battling relegation both seasons. That with players like Baines Coleman Stones Mori Barry McCarthy Barkley Deulofeu Lukaku. How Allardyce would like to put out an 11 with that back 4 and strikeforce.

Spot on. I genuinely cannot believe the rewriting of history that has gone on in the last few months regarding Martinez and his 'entertaining' brand of football. I have had a season ticket for almost 20 years and none of the seasons were as frustrating for me as in 14-15 and 15-16 where we threw away a real opportunity to muscle in on the SKY 6 and form a 'Big 7' for years to come. Moyes had us in that group with limited finances and then Martinez threw us back in among the also rans and small clubs. Koeman also did that this season and now Allardyce (a man who many who defend him would admit should never have been our manager in usual circumstances) has had to try and pick up the pieces from the mess that Koeman left for him.

The 13/14 season was great, but a complete one off for Martinez and the 2 failed seasons after it had far more longer term consequences for this club than his excellent first season did.

 

[Nymzee]

Because we're effectively saying you've done the minimum we asked which we thank you for, but we don't think you're the man to lead us to the next stage so we're off to get someone who can. It's the exact call that all successful football clubs and businesses make all the time, and if we want to become one of them we need to do the same. Saying 'oh you did quite well there, why don't have another go and we'll see how it pans out' is absolutely not the MO of a successful operation.

Can you think of any managerial sackings over the last few seasons that didn't come about because a team were down the wrong end of the table or were relegated? Like genuinely. Only Watford really but they do it all the time.

 

[MrGrumpy]

Can you think of any managerial sackings over the last few seasons that didn't come about because a team were down the wrong end of the table or were relegated? Like genuinely. Only Watford really but they do it all the time.

Chelsea do it quite a lot

 

[Lanolin]

Can you think of any managerial sackings over the last few seasons that didn't come about because a team were down the wrong end of the table or were relegated? Like genuinely. Only Watford really but they do it all the time.

Mancini, Rodgers, Van Gaal, Sherwood, Villas Boas twice, Benitez, Dalglish.

All of them could argue that they'd done alright in their jobs, but all of them were sacked/all but sacked by letting their contracts run down with no attempt to keep them on.

 

[blueblue]

If he stay, which he won’t, say bye bye Lookman and Vlasic

I don't want Sam to stay but keeping those are not the reason that he should be sacked. You might as well add Besic to the list. They are young players that have potential but are miles and miles off being good enough to make a real difference to our team or to make a real mark in the premiership and to be honest I think that both seem to believe they are better than what they actually are.

The one area we as fans excel in is over estimating some young players.

 

[Kenshin]

I don't want Sam to stay but keeping those are not the reason that he should be sacked. You might as well add Besic to the list. They are young players that have potential but are miles and miles off being good enough to make a real difference to our team or to make a real mark in the premiership and to be honest I think that both seem to believe they are better than what they actually are.

The one area we as fans excel in is over estimating some young players.

No the thing we seem to excel in is expecting too much for youngsters and turning on them when they don't deliver

Young players are inexperienced and therefore should not be measured against players 10 years older than them. The likes of Davies vlasic lookman to name a few should be measured on their potential not their current standing. When you look at them, give them 5 years at least to develop and improve. They will still be nowhere near their prime but chances are have made great strides in getting there and forming important parts of our team.

Not every youngster is Wayne Rooney making the first team by the age of 19. Didier drogba for example didn't get anywhere near the first division in France until he was 24, other big name players never made it anywhere until their mid 20s before they stepped their game up. Even Gareth bale for example was an average left back at 19/20.

Point is, we absolutely should get rid of a manager who freezes out young players with potential because we want them achieving their potential here, not elsewhere because they didn't fit into a managers one track mind of thinking when they were still learning their trade.

 

[RomanReigns]

does he get a bonus for keeping us up?

 

[Papa Shango]

No the thing we seem to excel in is expecting too much for youngsters and turning on them when they don't deliver

Young players are inexperienced and therefore should not be measured against players 10 years older than them. The likes of Davies vlasic lookman to name a few should be measured on their potential not their current standing. When you look at them, give them 5 years at least to develop and improve. They will still be nowhere near their prime but chances are have made great strides in getting there and forming important parts of our team.

Not every youngster is Wayne Rooney making the first team by the age of 19. Didier drogba for example didn't get anywhere near the first division in France until he was 24, other big name players never made it anywhere until their mid 20s before they stepped their game up. Even Gareth bale for example was an average left back at 19/20.

Point is, we absolutely should get rid of a manager who freezes out young players with potential because we want them achieving their potential here, not elsewhere because they didn't fit into a managers one track mind of thinking when they were still learning their trade.

Agree with all bar the last part.

Its an absoulte myth that Allardyce freezes out young players with potential. Davies, Calvert Lewin and Kenny have all had significant game time. Holgate has had a few games as well. That's 4 players in a top flight squad. Its not bad at all.

Lookman was let out on loan as he may not get the time he wants/needs here, nothing wrong with that, it's pretty standard. Baningime is still part of the U23s. The only real one who has not had much of a chance is Vlasic and he has been alright but hardly been brilliant either.

 

[Kenshin]

Agree with all bar the last part.

Its an absoulte myth that Allardyce freezes out young players with potential. Davies, Calvert Lewin and Kenny have all had significant game time. Holgate has had a few games as well. That's 4 players in a top flight squad. Its not bad at all.

Lookman was let out on loan as he may not get the time he wants/needs here, nothing wrong with that, it's pretty standard. Baningime is still part of the U23s. The only real one who has not had much of a chance is Vlasic and he has been alright but hardly been brilliant either.

I agree, but when you look at the comparisons it still speaks volumes. Holgate was dropped for Williams, Vlasic/Lookman dropped for Bolasie coming back after a year out almost instantly, Lewen has had too much game time IMO as a striker, he doesn't look like he has the potential to be the level of striker in the future as its the basic things he is lacking.

that is where the manager comes into it i think. Yes the young players should not be playing every game at 19, they should be used in the squad/off the bench more so than anyone else. But when the manager drops players for underperforming ones for no real reason then that is where the manager causes a rift within the squad. Lookman when he was dropped was looking like one of our best players, and a real impact off the bench before he was nowhere near the team.

 

[blueblue]

I want the next manager to really excite me , to make the world of football look at Everton and think just maybe this club is going somewhere.

Martinez came from a team that were relegated, although it is harsh to lay all the blame for that at his feet.
Koemans appointment was notable for us acting as a big club by taking him off Southampton rather than the amazing managerial career he had.
Sam Allyrdyce was appointed at a time when our season was falling apart, his job was to keep us in the premiership and he has done that. Maybe it was going to happen any way but I look back to performances before his appointment and I think there was a real fear that we could be a bottom three..ish club if something wasn't done.

Going forward I don't want another manager that befits our middle of the road status which is where we currently are. When you look at the money we spend now we are far ahead of middle of the road but the new manager needs to reflect that.

 

[blue61]

Chelsea do it quite a lot

And Manure in recent years.