Sam Allardyce

[bluestevon]

He’s actually got these surrender monkeys playing and people are complaining. If he had a top squad at his disposal then some of these complaints would be valid but this is a squad generally discussed as one of the poorest in the league. We had no fit CB of prem quality, we had no striker of prem quality, we had a slow ageing midfield completely unbalanced, and no decent fit full backs.

All of those things are still true. Allardyce however has dragged Williams Holgate Kenny and Martina up to a good standard. He’s coaxed better form out of Rooney and Siggurdson and he’s brought a bit of balance to the team. Yet some people aren’t happy because there’s s few too many long balls. You couldn’t make it up.

After the transfer window and once Bolasie Barkley Coleman and Funes Mori are fit to go with our new striker and full back, if we are still doing nothing more than punting long then these moans might be valid, but currently he has absolute dross to work with and the only reason expectations are raised is because he’s raised them.

These are still the same players that got pumped by Atalanta and Southampton and didn’t play for Koeman or Martinez. Allardyce has done well just to get this lot turning up to training and running around a bit.

Conversely mate, they are still the same players who went away to City and are still the only side in the league to get a result from them all season...

 

[LouReedwalkonthewildside]

Stability can’t be rushed though.

It took Moyes 3-4 years to stop the rot.

The worrying thing is, we've already blown £200m under Koeman.

Will be interesting to see how our finances are for transfers in the Jan, and Summer windows.

 

[davek]

Allardyce isn't a stupid man either mate, he will give the sound-bites about wanting to play a more attractive brand of football etc - because he knows some people will lap that up as gospel - when it's just words and the next training drill he will have the cb's and midfielders whacking it 60y all session.

He will 100% also keep a core element of this team as kids - because again he realises that it buys him a lot of credit from some fans for playing them.

Lets see how we approach Saturday though, home game against a team, who likely won't be playing a striker against us and who have shown that they aren't vulnerable to a team sitting back (which was the argument for the way we played against the rs being the correct way to play), we sit deep against Chelsea playing Gueye and Schneiderlin again without Moratta playing and criticism should be levelled at us.

Spot on mate. Sam is a slick self-publicist. He knows what buttons to push with different audiences.

His stock in trade is confidence...he sells confidence. There's nothing much more to him than that. I cant dislike him, tbh. I know he gets on other peoples nerves (yourself included) but I'd rather a confidence trickster in the dugout who can get a team believing they have a shot at a point at least in a game than that dour arrogant divvy Koeman. Low bar, I know...

 

[Toffeelover]

You make some fair points but I honestly don't think we were ever going to go down whoever came in.

I think it's really important to acknowledge just how important it is to have somebody as a manager. The situation with Unsworth got a bit silly, he was trying to impress enough to get the job so maybe made some decisions he wouldn't necessarily have done otherwise, and tothe players weren't too bothered what he thought of them because he wasn't their long term boss. A feeling of negativity surrounded the club as they were being laughed at in the press and fans were panicking. As soon as somebody was appointed permanently all the problems are eradicated, so I think whoever it was would have had things a bit easier.

Yes Southampton and Atalanta were bad, but it's easy to fall into the trap of thinking that is some sort of guarantee of things spiralling out of control when the reality is stuff like that happens all the time. Last season we only won one of 11 games in the lead up to Christmas, including losing to such wonderful sides as Norwich, Burnley, Bournemouth and Watford, and being thoroughly embarrassed 5-0 by Chelsea. We didn't get relegated though, we found a way of playing that worked and put a run together. I always believed the same would happen again, not just through blind faith but because logic suggested it would. We'd already won 4 home games before Allardyce took over so Huddersfield and Swansea were virtual gimmes with the sort of form they've been in. Newcastle are possibly the worst side in the league but a win was a nice bonus as I'd forgotten what away wins were like. The derby was a weird one, in that it was an absolutely awful performance but a good result. How much of that was due to some new resilience/confidence and how much was just pure luck I don't know, but i'll take it either way.

In short, Allardyce is doing well so far and deserves credit, but anyone who thinks this couldn't have happened under any number of managerss is either kidding themselves or doesn't watch a lot of football.

There in lies part of the truth, the players did not see him as the boss perhaps he was too close to the players after all it is a bit different from running the U23 squad.

As to the second item problem is no one would touch us with a barge pole, what choices did the club have? so when you say any number of managers is a bit far fetched, there was not a queue at GP.

 

[canuckblue]

Spot on mate. Sam is a slick self-publicist. He knows what buttons to push with different audiences.

His stock in trade is confidence...he sells confidence. There's nothing much more to him than that. I cant dislike him, tbh. I know he gets on other peoples nerves (yourself included) but I'd rather a confidence trickster in the dugout who can get a team believing they have a shot at a point at least in a game than that dour arrogant divvy Koeman. Low bar, I know...

Henning Lowbar?

 

[davek]

Henning Lowbar?

More like Lowbrow for Sam.

 

[DanB90]

Just me who isn’t arsed about our defenders wellying the ball as far away from our box as possible when in danger?

Rather that than them fannying about doing Cruyf turns and 1-2’s on the 18yard line.

 

[Toffeelover]

Spot on mate. Sam is a slick self-publicist. He knows what buttons to push with different audiences.

His stock in trade is confidence...he sells confidence. There's nothing much more to him than that. I cant dislike him, tbh. I know he gets on other peoples nerves (yourself included) but I'd rather a confidence trickster in the dugout who can get a team believing they have a shot at a point at least in a game than that dour arrogant divvy Koeman. Low bar, I know...

Ooops Dave, I put a like in for your post.

 

[BlueToff]

Who sent the team out on Monday with two holding midfielders and Rooney who has shown he struggles to be involved when played in a side playing two defensive midfielders mate?

If as it was the team looked sluggish and aimless in the centre of the park last Monday, it was entirely predictable before the game it was going to look that way, as we have the evidence of every-time we have played that system with those players and it looks exactly the same.

So effectively Allardyce said after the game he wasn't happy with the way the team played - when it was painfully obvious to a lot of people that the way we played was determined by the personnel picked

I said on Monday that I wanted us to start with Davies.

However, it was clearly not a gameplan to be so sluggish on the ball. The gameplan/logic was to stick with the same side that beat Newcastle which really isn't flawed. However, the movement wasn't good enough and the substitution Schneiderlin off for Davies changed the game.

That being said, I believe the plan was always to bring Davies on at that stage.

I think Sam's first and foremost thought at this time is to keep it tight. We let in a sloppy goal but other than that restricted Swansea to very little, and if we stepped up the pace always looked like getting through.

We could have easily have started with Davies and been just as sluggish. As it was, Davies' energy coming on against a tired Swansea side helped break them down.

While I agree with you that Davies should have started, I also see the logic in Sam's choice and at the end of the day it worked.

Chelsea will be interesting.

I want us to start with Davies and get at them. I have a feeling he will.

 

[BlueToff]

Just me who isn’t arsed about our defenders wellying the ball as far away from our box as possible when in danger?

Rather that than them fannying about doing Cruyf turns and 1-2’s on the 18yard line.

If our defence still included someone of the quality of Stones, I have no issue with it.

Issue is it doesn't. It includes two players on their last legs, a short of confidence Keane, a young lad playing his sixth/seventh game in a CB role in the back four for us, and Cuco Martina.

So I have no issue with the players concentrating on defending first. The movement up top has to be better but we've shown with some of the goals we've scored recently that it is coming. I don't get what there is to whinge about!

 

[BlueToff]

The 'we put a couple of decent moves together' defence if anything for me makes the situation worse, because the team has shown in glimpses that it is more than capable of playing decent and attractive football - but the 'philosophy' of the manager is to get it as far away from our box as quick and possible which ultimately means those decent moves are actually counter to the way Sam wants us playing rather than a glimpse at the future

Utter nonsense Stevon mate.

Sam's 'style' is get the ball up the pitch and play the footy in the opposition half.

That's where some of our best moves / goals have come from.

What is wrong with that?

The movement needs to be better and that will be helped by better team selection. Sam's learning about this squad and what he can get out of them.

 

[MickA]

I think you are confusing "aimless" with "accurate", Mick.

I would opine that every one of those punts from Pickford was in fact aimed at either Oumar or DCL......but they were hit very badly, hence the jack of accuracy.

It is very possible to aim a ball at a specific target but to hit it rather badly and render it inaccurate

And as I said to Stevon, those derby stats are atypical and are skewing the average stats over his four EPL games in charge.

In the first 45 against Swansea there were numberous aimless balls without a seconds thought. It was agricultural and wouldn't have looked out of place at the Aigburth GAA pitch.

 

[BlueToff]

Btw @bluestevon @davek I'm not disagreeing on the general point that - long term - Sam isn't the man to take us to where we want to be.

But in the short term I think he can get us organised and drilled to a point that, a but like when Martinez took over from Moyes, a more expansive coach could come in and really achieve something.

 

[Nymzee]

Just me who isn’t arsed about our defenders wellying the ball as far away from our box as possible when in danger?

Rather that than them fannying about doing Cruyf turns and 1-2’s on the 18yard line.

I enjoy watching it as it's a tactic I regularly practice in Sunday League.

 

[BlueToff]

In the first 45 against Swansea there were numberous aimless balls without a seconds thought. It was agricultural and wouldn't have looked out of place at the Aigburth GAA pitch.

But those instructions didn't come from Sam...

They came about because of a lack of movement from the midfield (as @bluestevon says - a large proportion of that is down to team selection) meaning that Holgate/Williams were looking to get the ball up to DCL allowing Gylfi and Lennon to support.

Once we got the ball down - and the players in midfield started moving - we looked miles better and that's how Sam wants us to play.