Sam Allardyce

[Stanley Parker]

Just me who isn’t arsed about our defenders wellying the ball as far away from our box as possible when in danger?

Rather that than them fannying about doing Cruyf turns and 1-2’s on the 18yard line.

Utter nonsense Stevon mate.

Sam's 'style' is get the ball up the pitch and play the footy in the opposition half. That's where some of our best moves / goals have come from.

What is wrong with that? The movement needs to be better and that will be helped by better team selection. Sam's learning about this squad and what he can get out of them.

Nobody complains when the ball is cleared when we are in danger. It's a problem when the long ball is our primary attacking tactic.

We need to build attacks to create clear scoring chances, not just boot the ball upfield. Sam doesn't want to play football in the opposition half. He simply wants to feed off any mistakes made by their defenders.

 

[MickA]

But those instructions didn't come from Sam...

They came about because of a lack of movement from the midfield (as @bluestevon says - a large proportion of that is down to team selection) meaning that Holgate/Williams were looking to get the ball up to DCL allowing Gylfi and Lennon to support.

Once we got the ball down - and the players in midfield started moving - we looked miles better and that's how Sam wants us to play.

Strongly disagree. He picked a stupid team on Monday, @bluestevon and I actually mapped the game out an hour before it all happened it was that predictable.

The hoofing wasn't due to the midfield it was due to the set-up of the entire XI and that for me was planned. It's percentages, same as it always is.

 

[BlueToff]

Nobody complains when the ball is cleared when we are in danger. It's a problem when the long ball is our primary attacking tactic.

We need to build attacks to create clear scoring chances, not just boot the ball upfield. Sam doesn't want to play football in the opposition half. He simply wants to feed off any mistakes made by their defenders.

Again, this is all utter drivel.

Sam has said many times already that he wants more goals like the one we scored v H'field (Gylfi) and the one vs N'Castle.

In fact after the N'Castle game he said: "We should be doing that more often but the confidence isn't quite there yet."

The long ball isn't our primary tactic in most games. It wasn't on Monday. The players had to resort to it because the movement from Gana, Schneiderlin, Rooney and Lennon in particular was really poor for most of the first half - meaning DCL had to be used as an outlet and it didn't work.

Part of the reason for that is Sam's team selection, which I do think he got wrong although I can see the logic in it.

Sam does want to play football in the opposition half. Watch the build up to the third goal on Monday, or the Newcastle goal, and tell me I'm wrong.

But it doesn't come overnight. And you have to get the basics right first or we'll end up back where we started.

 

[BlueToff]

Strongly disagree. He picked a stupid team on Monday, @bluestevon and I actually mapped the game out an hour before it all happened it was that predictable.

The hoofing wasn't due to the midfield it was due to the set-up of the entire XI and that for me was planned. It's percentages, same as it always is.

I said myself during and after the game he should have started Davies.

Other than that, there was nothing 'stupid' about the side at all. And there is certainly logic in sticking with a winning side and looking to build some partnerships.

The instructions to 'hoof it' weren't instructions at all. It was a result of us playing poorly which in part was down to the team selection and in part down to dreadful movement and sluggish passing.

 

[MickA]

I said myself during and after the game he should have started Davies.

Other than that, there was nothing 'stupid' about the side at all. And there is certainly logic in sticking with a winning side and looking to build some partnerships.

The instructions to 'hoof it' weren't instructions at all. It was a result of us playing poorly which in part was down to the team selection and in part down to dreadful movement and sluggish passing.

Round in circles here. He picked the same anaemic 2xDM plus #10 Rooney that has never worked for Koeman or Unsworth and even failed at the tail end of Martinez. We go sideways and backwards slowly whenever that trio are picked in a 4-2-3-1.

It was a dull selection and coupled with hoofball frankly was atrocious leading to the worst side in the league dictating terms on our own patch.

 

[BlueToff]

People can never be happy. Honestly, get a grip lads.

We're winning games and in the second half played some good stuff - the build up to second penalty was excellent play and the second goal itself was quick and incisive with a sprinkling of quality. That move didn't come from one 'long ball' and in fact was from Pickford rolling it to Holgate, who found Kenny, into Davies, into Rooney and on to Gylfi. Five passes and a shot. What's wrong with that?

I can guarantee the same people moaning now were the ones moaning under Roberto, or moaning about our gash defence this season.

Wasn't up to scratch in the first half and you won't see one person saying it was.

Swansea weren't a threat other than a sloppy goal that came from a mistake.

Davies should have been in imo from the start but wasn't. It was clearly a plan to always bring him on at 60 and get at their tiring defence, creating more room for Rooney to pick up the ball.

I don't agree with it necessarily but it worked.

I hope he goes with the same XI - except Davies for Schneiderlin - on Saturday. I'm pretty sure he will.

 

[BlueToff]

Round in circles here. He picked the same anaemic 2xDM plus #10 Rooney that has never worked for Koeman or Unsworth and even failed at the tail end of Martinez. We go sideways and backwards slowly whenever that trio are picked in a 4-2-3-1.

It was a dull selection and coupled with hoofball frankly was atrocious leading to the worst side in the league dictating terms on our own patch.

But Sam wanted to try them. That's his prerogative and he is still learning what HE can get out of this squad (not what a sacked manager and a caretaker who had a pretty shoddy time of it overall managed to get out of them).

Swansea at no point dictated any of that game.

We didn't do enough to dictate it though and we should have done.

In away games I think a 4-2-3-1 system for now similar to how we set up at N'Castle is the way to go to get us back on a run of form.

At home it should be different. Sam got it wrong but there is logic in it.

 

[Lanolin]

There in lies part of the truth, the players did not see him as the boss perhaps he was too close to the players after all it is a bit different from running the U23 squad.

As to the second item problem is no one would touch us with a barge pole, what choices did the club have? so when you say any number of managers is a bit far fetched, there was not a queue at GP.

Of course there would have been! A PL job with one of the top 10 salaries in the club world, a supposedly massive transfer budget and a fanbase that would build a gold statue of you for winning the League Cup and name their kids after you for winning at Anfield.

That wasn't the point I was making though. I'm not saying Allardyce was the wrong choice, just that I don't think he's worked miracles in getting us to win a few games against sides below us in the league. Once again I'll try to make it clear that he has done a good job so far, I just think some people are getting a bit carried away with just how good, same as I think some people got a bit carried away with how bad we were. There's people still arguing that we were the worst team in the league, despite us neither being in the relegation zone, nor in the bottom 3 of the form table in the lead up to him taking over.[/QUOTE]

 

[Groucho]

any near future change from Allardyce to a new manager might be more cosmetic than actual

I’m not enamoured by unneccesary change.

 

[bobafro]

40 long balls from Pickford in the derby, 16 were accurate.

Overall we played 204 passes, 73 long.

Wow... wasn't expecting it to be that much.
It's one thing though kicking it into and area where your players can challenge for the ball and to lose possession as a result.

I just remember 3x70Yard balls that he played in a row that just went straight into touch.... and wanting to tear my hair out. Especially knowing that his kicking is one of his most talked about attributes.

 

[Saint Domingo]

How on earth do we have a slow ageing midfield mate? we don't currently have a midfielder older than 28 on the books, Gueye is not in any world slow, neither is Vlasic, Lennon, Lookman, even Sigurdsson and Davies are not 'slow' players, they just aren't fast ones.

Dragged Kenny up to a good standard? alternatively you could say he is a good player who has now adjusted after a dozen games in the league mate, absolute bollocks trying to credit BFS with dragging him up to standard.
Holgate is finally playing his natural position - something Unsworth was robbed of the chance to do due to injury.
Williams yeah fair due he has got him playing again by going back to a backs to the walls system which suits the player (see United away last season for how it does) - Martina - nope still looks gash mate.

The central midfield players have predominately been Rooney Siggurdson Davies Gueye Schneiderlin Klaasen. Apart from Gueye there’s not an ounce of pace in there.

After seeing the performances pre-Allardyce from the defence you can’t put improvement down to a settling in phase. Every member of the back 4 has improved immeasurably. It may be that confidence has improved so they’re now showing their talent but again this is because Allardyce has created the structure to allow them to play well. I think Martina has played well actually against tricky opponents even out of position.

 

[trueblue10]

We were out of trouble by the time Allardyce took his substantial arse off that director's box seat against West Ham.

There wasn't much mess to get out of in all honesty. All those players have done subsequently is respond for a new FT manager - they knew they had to...a situation not afforded Unsworth.

The deal was done before he put his arse on that seat in the directors box.

The players didn't respond to Unsy when he was put in charge and he is one of our own , " gets us" and all that.

And if you look back to the game before the West Ham game, if you think we were out of trouble after a 5-1 home defeat to a third rate Italian team, and a 4-1 away defeat to a team who, prior to playing us had only scored 4 home goals all season, if you think we were out of trouble , then im sorry Dave , but your kidding yourself.

AAs ive mentioned before, he wasn't my first choice, but 5 games in, you can't fault him.

 

[trueblue10]

He didn't. Forget the EL and LC games, the PL games were all important and he took almost half the points on offer....and that was despite being hobbled by the board who refused to sanction him as a manager in the eyes of the players.

BTW I dont dislike Allardyce at all. I'm just under no illusions about his character or his ability.

All games are important, every single one of them.

Sam has taken ALMOST ALL of the points available to him.

 

[davek]

I’m not enamoured by unneccesary change.

No, and in general people are right to feel that way. But imo the club from top to bottom experienced a massive lack of self-confidence in the first three months of this season and lost its collective self-confidence.

The way forward is to recognise that as a blip and to get back to playing the football we all wish to see. The alternative to doing that is to stick long term with SA: something akin to believing that danger exists all around if we venture out of our comfort zone, and so it's best to hide behind the couch for the rest of our lives.

 

[davek]

All games are important, every single one of them.

Sam has taken ALMOST ALL of the points available to him.

The EL was a lost cause. Do you think Allardyce would have given everything to it had he come in at that stage? His lineup in the last game in the group and his no-show tell me the answer is no.

I'm not trying to detract from what Allardyce has done so far. But it's been 4 matches in charge only for him. I wish him every success this season, and then hope he slings his hook at the end of it.