Sam Allardyce

[bluestevon]

Honestly mate I don't think he talks "sense" at all, he rambles like an incoherent drunk. His one lucid moment was about the foodbanks.

The reality is that he has won 3 out of 9 games with a number of easy fixtures in there. Even Unnnnnnnnsy managed 2 in 7 didn't he and that was hopeless.

We haven't even looked like having a chance of winning the last four games against, it's pathetic. Even against Newcastle they hit the post twice.

Corrupt and inept, a £6m a year combination.

Yeah the foodbanks things came across well, until this is the same bloke who said he supported Brexit on the other hand - so nice one Sam

Still assert that Unsworth in his last game showed how badly effected he had been by the pressure of wanting the job and the lack of motivating factor on players who knew he was 100% an interim manager - soon as they knew they had one they'd need to impress - and with Unsworths tactics/team set up then we go and smash a teams back-doors in.

Proves to me that what we needed all along was a permanent manager decision to be made, and the effect of that decision would be a short term bounce which would ultimately probably be enough in itself to stave off any relegation fears. we got that and now we are lumbered with a 9m bill for a corrupt mess of a manager who has not been progressive in any sense for 20+ years, and who will probably have the final say on certain players careers and maybe 60-70m worth of incomings.

That screams out that any new manager is gonna have more of a mess to sort out than already existed.

With next summer having a much shorter transfer window, combined with it being a world cup year as well, i have the horrible feeling Moshiri may stick with him yanno, can see Walsh and others in his ear pointing out the difficulty in making a change this summer due to those factors etc

In reality what should be happening is that Moshiri should have already approached say a Fonseca etc and have a singed agreement for him to come in this summer, and let him start working on players he will want to bring in - oh yeah and let him choose his own DOF as well as the one we have is a joke

 

[bluestevon]

Erm. We were in the relegation zone and 8th to 9th this season with the players we've got wouldn't be so bad. The Jan transfer window will only paper over the cracks. I wouldn't have trusted Koeman anyway as he'd have bought another number 10...I think the SA appointment was seen as a real effort to maintain our premier league status and as such seems to be working. I'm neither for or against S.A. as he's only a temporary measure. I'll purge the last 18 months and next 14 months from all memory. Hopefully by then someone on our board will have had a eureka moment.

No mate we where in exactly 13th place when Allardyce took his first training session with the team, we where in 18th when Unsworth took his first game - 5 games later under him we where 5 points clear of 18th, 8 games under Allardyce has seen us move a only a further 3 points away from that bottom 3.

If we lose to Spurs away next up btw, we will be one of the worst form teams in the league - which for me is worrying that any bounce effect is gone

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

So by extension, since you agree he is a poor manager, we will inevitably have to dispense with his services with further disruption and upheaval for the team.
Wouldn't we have been better finding a manager who could have improved our team and been able to carry us forward into the future?

Who was the long term solution?

Even if we'd managed to pry Silva from Watford, he's already shown himself to be a mercenary who regularly moves clubs. He wouldn't have represented a long term solution

The manager who would have represented that, Dyche, wasn't going to cut and run on Burnley mid season

Therefore, we were a club in crisis who were sinking like a stone and needed a firefighter to get us till the end of the season. Thus entered Allardyce

I'm not especially thrilled about it, but its what we needed at the time

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

After watching the last few, anywhere between 11th and 14th.

At which point Samuel rides off into the sunset and we move on

Keeping us safe is all he's here to do

Once he's done that, we can dispense with his services

We've just got to pull our socks up and get through the rest of this season

 

[EFC78]

So by extension, since you agree he is a poor manager, we will inevitably have to dispense with his services with further disruption and upheaval for the team.
Wouldn't we have been better finding a manager who could have improved our team and been able to carry us forward into the future?

And how many of those were available? Name some potential candidates we could have got that are actually realistic.

 

[Lanolin]

Like you are right now?

Again, if you think we're this free flowing attack minded side being held back by a "dinosaur" after one month of management, that's fine.

Sam had one job at Palace and that was staying up. He did that. How he did it doesn't matter.

He turned up here to a squad that had conceded more goals than Swansea, Palace, and Newcastle (all still relegation threatened). Put us on an 8 game unbeaten streak.

Judge him at the end of the season. Not after 1 month.

I'm not even being dramatic nevermind melodramatic. You think I'm trying to slate Allardyce because you're so desperate to defend him that you see offence where there is none. My point was simply that it seems a bit weird to suggest that all these teams are better than us when they're below us in the league, or that their attacks are better than ours despite them not scoring as many goals over a prolonged period of time. It's just over the top nonsense, peddled to fit the narrative that Allardyce is the saviour when in actual fact he's simply doing a reasonably competent, if difficult to watch, job. Our squad is a midtable one, our attacking options are midtable ones, it's disappointing but it is what it is. Constantly making out that we have the worst squad in the league is embarrassing, particularly when people keep providing you with evidence that it isn't - like the league table for instance.

 

[JLW]

Who was the long term solution?

Even if we'd managed to pry Silva from Watford, he's already shown himself to be a mercenary who regularly moves clubs. He wouldn't have represented a long term solution

The manager who would have represented that, Dyche, wasn't going to cut and run on Burnley mid season

Therefore, we were a club in crisis who were sinking like a stone and needed a firefighter to get us till the end of the season. Thus entered Allardyce

I'm not especially thrilled about it, but its what we needed at the time

Allardyce is no solution for nothing!

 

[JLW]

And how many of those were available? Name some potential candidates we could have got that are actually realistic.

Well I’ll tell you we could of took any of the top ten managers in the championship, all of who would serve us up better football and results that we are witnessing at the minute

 

[GwladysBlue]

He needs to be sacked immediately after the last game of the season. Personally I hope they hand him his P45 in the centre circle at West Ham.

 

[bluestevon]

Who was the long term solution?

Even if we'd managed to pry Silva from Watford, he's already shown himself to be a mercenary who regularly moves clubs. He wouldn't have represented a long term solution

The manager who would have represented that, Dyche, wasn't going to cut and run on Burnley mid season

Therefore, we were a club in crisis who were sinking like a stone and needed a firefighter to get us till the end of the season. Thus entered Allardyce

I'm not especially thrilled about it, but its what we needed at the time

Our last 5 games form before Allardyce took charge was better than our current last five form mate, we lose to spurs then the average points return per game under Unsworth will be the same as it has been under Allardyce.

Dyche would have moved had we actually went in for him - no one turns down a 600% pay increase at a much bigger club with much more scope for backing the manager. His answers in press conferences pretty much show that as he would never say he wasn't interested or close the door in case we did come calling mate.

Would say a Fonseca have given the club the bounce that a lot of new mangers would have as well with room going forward to build upon that, quite possibly, would he have been interested, ofc he would have.

Would the likes of Tuchel have actually taken it on, had we gone seriously after them to the same degree we went after Silva, is he turning down
the equivalent of a 8-9m year salary having been on 1m at Dortmund, which is in effect the package we could have easily offered given the compensation and wages being touted for Silva/Allardyce.

The Key thing for those two or similar candidates like Jardim, Favre etc is that we would have had to have guaranteed them substantial funding and backing and maybe even have had to have gotten rid of the DoF for another, none of which the club IMO anyway is willing or able to do atm.

Would even the likes of Moyes - who i can't stand have been just as good a short term appointment as BFS is, IMO anyway yes he would have, he'd have gotten a reaction out of enough of the squad to guarantee safety and comes with none of the long term problems that hiring Allardyce and giving him funds and final decisions on players entails to the clubs after he goes.

 

[kenada_blue]

I'm not even being dramatic nevermind melodramatic. You think I'm trying to slate Allardyce because you're so desperate to defend him that you see offence where there is none. My point was simply that it seems a bit weird to suggest that all these teams are better than us when they're below us in the league, or that their attacks are better than ours despite them not scoring as many goals over a prolonged period of time. It's just over the top nonsense, peddled to fit the narrative that Allardyce is the saviour when in actual fact he's simply doing a reasonably competent, if difficult to watch, job. Our squad is a midtable one, our attacking options are midtable ones, it's disappointing but it is what it is. Constantly making out that we have the worst squad in the league is embarrassing, particularly when people keep providing you with evidence that it isn't - like the league table for instance.

I've made the very same point. The melodrama comes from people saying we should be playing "better" football and the attack should be better with the players we have. I don't agree with that.

I also said there are other sides who I see with better squads below us that have been poorly managed. That's my view looking at the money we've spent and the players we have in comparison to a couple of other squads. Whether the likes of Zaha or Benteke haven't scored this many goals etc, both would waltz into our side without much argument for eg.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

He needs to be sacked immediately after the last game of the season. Personally I hope they hand him his P45 in the centre circle at West Ham.

And he will be

Relax

 

[EFC78]

No mate we where in exactly 13th place when Allardyce took his first training session with the team, we where in 18th when Unsworth took his first game - 5 games later under him we where 5 points clear of 18th, 8 games under Allardyce has seen us move a only a further 3 points away from that bottom 3.

If we lose to Spurs away next up btw, we will be one of the worst form teams in the league - which for me is worrying that any bounce effect is gone

I've noticed this line of argument from the Allardyce critics and it distorts the full picture. We appointed Allardyce on the day of the West Ham game (before the match was played) after just being taken apart by a mid table Atalanta side 5-1 at home, and being humiliated 4-1 by a poor Southampton. After the Southampton game when the club decided to act we had won just one in 7 under Unsworth, having lost 5 in 7:

"The growing sense of crisis surrounding Everton intensified as caretaker-manager David Unsworth experienced a fifth defeat in seven games since taking temporary charge of the Goodison Park club following the dismissal of Ronald Koeman."

At the time of the appointment (before the West Ham game) , i'm fairly sure we had one of, if not the worst defences in the league for goals conceded and were only 2 points above the drop.

"The Toffees are now winless in 15 Premier League away games - their second longest run in the competition having reached 19 between December 1996 and December 1997."

"Everton have now conceded 28 goals in the Premier League this season - their worst tally after 13 games since 1958-59."

Before the club made their decision, the situation was not improving and we were in crisis. That is the absolute reality of the situation which has been proven with the above quotes.

After Allardyce came in, we then won 3 in 4 before going unbeaten in 6 with tough games against Liverpool and Chelsea, keeping clean sheets in 4 of them. Something we had failed to do in the league from Stoke on the opening day, to the West Ham game.

Things weren't improving under Unsworth and they had to act and make a sensible decision for the short term and they did exactly that by appointing Allardyce who has pretty much secured survival in 4 or 5 games. It's also strange how people ignore that Unsworth had a very favourable set of fixtures in his short time in charge. Leicester, Watford, Palace, Southampton and West Ham whilst Allardyce has already had to play Liverpool, Chelsea and Man United.

 

[Lanolin]

I've made the very same point. The melodrama comes from people saying we should be playing "better" football and the attack should be better with the players we have. I don't agree with that.

I also said there are other sides who I see with better squads below us that have been poorly managed. That's my view looking at the money we've spent and the players we have in comparison to a couple of other squads. Whether the likes of Zaha or Benteke haven't scored this many goals etc, both would waltz into our side without much argument for eg.

And Sigurdsson, Bolasie and Rooney would walk right into Palace's side. That's the only point that's being made here. There are of course players who play for sides below us who would improve our team, that goes without saying and will always be the case for every team in the league. Overall though, we have better attacking options than half of the league, that's why we've scored more goals than half of the league. People keep insisting that we have the worst team/worst attack etc etc but it's just melodramatic twaddle. The squad isn't as good as we hoped it would be, it's lacking in certain areas and certainly lacking in balance, but individually the players we have are pretty decent. The likes of Mirallas, Sandro and Lookman who can't even make our bench would unquestionably be playing regularly for a number of PL sides.

 

[GwladysBlue]

And he will be

Relax

Sam doesn't think he will be, he's already talking about next season.