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Transfer Rumour Santiago Sosa

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Tel001 said:
Some people have a better life on the dole in the Uk than in there home country, not their fault , but that is a reason why someone might “ want to move to another country without work”
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I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt because you don't live here mate, and haven't for a long time. But I'm pretty sure you'll find that the vast majority of people claiming "dole" in the UK were born and bred here.

Whether you meant it to or not, your post read that migrants were coming here for that purpose, which is clearly not the case. You're just digging a bigger hole for yourself by carrying on.
 
Brett Angell Delight said:
I get your point, but my thinking is that if it is the kind of player Marcel would have scouted for PSV, there should be a market to sell him onto and make our money back, should he not work out.

Indeed, it wouldn't surprise me if some of our young, South American imports are loaned out over there in the early days.
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He wasn't paying £15m for them for PSV though was he? That's a genuine question by the way, not a rhetorical one. I was under the impression most of the South Americans he was taking there were in the £2-5m bracket.

Even then though, it's still the same point I was making really. Leandro wasn't good enough to go to PSV or the like, he was a very very raw player who they took a punt on it in case they could polish him into something good, knowing that there was nothing really lost if not. They seem to really want Sosa though, I don't think they envisage him having a couple of failed loan spells and then going home with his tail between his legs, it feels like a very different signing.
 
JimmyK said:
If we pay anything remotely like the fees that have been mentioned and go through all this rigmarole with work permits he can't be anything like Leandro Rodriguez. That seemed very much just a punt with no real downside. If we pay £15m for this kid there's an enormous downside, nobody back in Argentina will be matching his wages or paying big fees for him, so we'll basically be writing off £20m+. If the reports are true, I would assume they really think he's a proper catch, not just a shot in the dark.
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It's one where you need to trust in Brands. This is the kind of deal we bring him in for.

My issue is that he's used to doing this in Holland, where the overall standard is a lot lower than here in England. And I'm sure he understands that. So players he brings in are being introduced to a level of football where they can compete. But they may find it a lot harder in England and may not get the playing time they need.

One option would be to buy them and immediately loan them out to somewhere like Holland for a year or two to continue their development. It would also solve the problem of work permits for young players from South America and Africa. How that would fit in with the fans demands for instance success is a different matter.
 
Brett Angell Delight said:
I get your point, but my thinking is that if it is the kind of player Marcel would have scouted for PSV, there should be a market to sell him onto and make our money back, should he not work out.

Indeed, it wouldn't surprise me if some of our young, South American imports are loaned out over there in the early days.
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Ha. Wish I'd read this earlier. Would have saved me the trouble of writing mine and it's a lot more concise.;)
 
Barnfred 55 said:
It's one where you need to trust in Brands. This is the kind of deal we bring him in for.

My issue is that he's used to doing this in Holland, where the overall standard is a lot lower than here in England. And I'm sure he understands that. So players he brings in are being introduced to a level of football where they can compete. But they may find it a lot harder in England and may not get the playing time they need.

One option would be to buy them and immediately loan them out to somewhere like Holland for a year or two to continue their development. It would also solve the problem of work permits for young players from South America and Africa. How that would fit in with the fans demands for instance success is a different matter.
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Yeah absolutely. I think maybe I didn't make my position on this clear. I think it would be great to bring him in, I just think if it's true then they must have a lot more faith in him than they did in Leandro, so it's really not the same thing at all. You don't splash £15m and have umpteen work permit hearings to sign a player who you think might possibly make it as a pro. If what is being reported is true, I think they must believe that he will be worth considerably more than £15m soon and so they need to act now.
 

JimmyK said:
He wasn't paying £15m for them for PSV though was he? That's a genuine question by the way, not a rhetorical one. I was under the impression most of the South Americans he was taking there were in the £2-5m bracket.

Even then though, it's still the same point I was making really. Leandro wasn't good enough to go to PSV or the like, he was a very very raw player who they took a punt on it in case they could polish him into something good, knowing that there was nothing really lost if not. They seem to really want Sosa though, I don't think they envisage him having a couple of failed loan spells and then going home with his tail between his legs, it feels like a very different signing.
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A quick look at the PSV transfer history shows that South American imports were being snapped up for £5m-£9m over the last 4-5 years. Inflation in the transfer market in general would probably push that up a bit in the last couple of years so - assuming Sosa is considered Eredividisie level even if he doesn't cut it for us, and knowing what a wizard Marcel is at negotiating - I'd be surprised if we couldn't recoup most if not all of our outlay.

Agreed totally on the second point. Leandro was a massive gamble, based on little more than him being South American. Marcel knows his onions when it comes to that market, which is what leads me to believe that we'll at least have the secondary market waiting for us if we need to sell on.
 
Brett Angell Delight said:
A quick look at the PSV transfer history shows that South American imports were being snapped up for £5m-£9m over the last 4-5 years. Inflation in the transfer market in general would probably push that up a bit in the last couple of years so - assuming Sosa is considered Eredividisie level even if he doesn't cut it for us, and knowing what a wizard Marcel is at negotiating - I'd be surprised if we couldn't recoup most if not all of our outlay.

Agreed totally on the second point. Leandro was a massive gamble, based on little more than him being South American. Marcel knows his onions when it comes to that market, which is what leads me to believe that we'll at least have the secondary market waiting for us if we need to sell on.
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Not sure that inflation has seen prices treble in the last 4 years to be honest! £15m would be the fourth highest fee ever paid by a Dutch club, if Sosa wasn't good enough to get regular games for us I'm pretty sure nobody there would be breaking their transfer records on him. The point is, I don't think we're signing him with a view to him being farmed out and us trying to somehow get our money back, I think if we buy him it's because we think he's dead good at kicking the footballs.
 
JimmyK said:
Not sure that inflation has seen prices treble in the last 4 years to be honest! £15m would be the fourth highest fee ever paid by a Dutch club, if Sosa wasn't good enough to get regular games for us I'm pretty sure nobody there would be breaking their transfer records on him. The point is, I don't think we're signing him with a view to him being farmed out and us trying to somehow get our money back, I think if we buy him it's because we think he's dead good at kicking the footballs.
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Of course, resale isn't going to be Plan A! With the prices soon to be received by Ajax for their best players, I highly doubt those transfer records will stand for long. It didn't take long in this country for fees to go crazy, and that will have a knock-on effect when big clubs are paying big money to teams in smaller leagues.

If the resale thing comes to pass, it may well be that we take a lesser fee but a decent chunk of sell-on, knowing that if he succeeds there he might get another chance at a step up to somewhere like Spain, Italy, etc.
 

Barnfred 55 said:
I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt because you don't live here mate, and haven't for a long time. But I'm pretty sure you'll find that the vast majority of people claiming "dole" in the UK were born and bred here.

Whether you meant it to or not, your post read that migrants were coming here for that purpose, which is clearly not the case. You're just digging a bigger hole for yourself by carrying on.
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Wasn’t carrying on .. I had 42 notifications so explained myself.
 
JimmyK said:
Not sure that inflation has seen prices treble in the last 4 years to be honest! £15m would be the fourth highest fee ever paid by a Dutch club, if Sosa wasn't good enough to get regular games for us I'm pretty sure nobody there would be breaking their transfer records on him. The point is, I don't think we're signing him with a view to him being farmed out and us trying to somehow get our money back, I think if we buy him it's because we think he's dead good at kicking the footballs.
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True. But I also think foreign markets see English clubs coming mate. What would cost Ajax £10m would probably cost us £15m.

Can't guarantee that obviously, but I'm sure English clubs get creamed because they know we have the extra smackers.
 
Howard's Beard said:
Finally, for the knuckle-draggers, daily mail readers and, charitably speaking, inadvertently ignorant spouting off about immigrants and benefits, here's a handy, well-sourced primer on the topic: https://fullfact.org/immigration/migration-and-welfare-benefits/

I expect, as such big fans of common sense and uncomfortable truths, it will see you fully converted and speaking out against the sort of nonsesne you've been spouting off so far.

Anyway, that Santiago Sosa, eh... sure is... a guy... plays football.. etc
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