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Scottish football

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Simon Buttle said:
That's because he acted like a complete moron around them, he told Ferdinand to start watching videos of Jags and playing more like that. Was seriously out of his depth at Man U.
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Genuinely one of the most bizarre criticisms I've ever heard that. It gets repeated so often as if it's absolutely crazy, but why is it?

Firstly it's not like Jagielka is some 3rd division defender, he got 40 England caps was generally regarded as one of the best PL defenders around at the time. He's a much better player than the likes of O'Shea, Jones, Smalling, Brown etc who Ferdinand won a load of his medals alongside. It's extremely disrespectful of any player to suggest that there was nothing they could learn from watching a player of Jagielka's quality, no matter how good they were themselves. Secondly, what better way is there to explain to somebody how you want them to play in your system than showing them somebody doing it well? I would say none.

In short, it's one of those things that people laugh at because other people do, without any real reasoning as to why it's funny.
 
Lanolin said:
Genuinely one of the most bizarre criticisms I've ever heard that. It gets repeated so often as if it's absolutely crazy, but why is it?

Firstly it's not like Jagielka is some 3rd division defender, he got 40 England caps was generally regarded as one of the best PL defenders around at the time. He's a much better player than the likes of O'Shea, Jones, Smalling, Brown etc who Ferdinand won a load of his medals alongside. It's extremely disrespectful of any player to suggest that there was nothing they could learn from watching a player of Jagielka's quality, no matter how good they were themselves. Secondly, what better way is there to explain to somebody how you want them to play in your system than showing them somebody doing it well? I would say none.

In short, it's one of those things that people laugh at because other people do, without any real reasoning as to why it's funny.
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Ferdinand was one of the best defenders of his generation in the world, Jagielka was an okish defender. Ferdinand won things, Jags did'nt, sorry but i just don't see what someone like him is going to learn from watching videos of Phil Jagielka, just my view that's all.
 
Simon Buttle said:
Ferdinand was one of the best defenders of his generation in the world, Jagielka was an okish defender. Ferdinand won things, Jags did'nt, sorry but i just don't see what someone like him is going to learn from watching videos of Phil Jagielka, just my view that's all.
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He could learn what his manager is expecting from him in certain situations for one, which I would imagine was the point of showing him the video. Further to that I would suggest that being a top quality player doesn't mean you don't have any weaknesses, or that somebody you're generally better than couldn't teach you a thing or two about certain aspects of the game. The same applies to anybody in any walk of life really, it's just common sense to be honest.
 

Lanolin said:
He could learn what his manager is expecting from him in certain situations for one, which I would imagine was the point of showing him the video. Further to that I would suggest that being a top quality player doesn't mean you don't have any weaknesses, or that somebody you're generally better than couldn't teach you a thing or two about certain aspects of the game. The same applies to anybody in any walk of life really, it's just common sense to be honest.
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I just think Moyes approach to the Man Utd job was wrong tbh and i don't think incidents like this aided his cause in anyway. I always thought in that first year he might have been better off letting them continue to play the way they had under Sir Alex rather than force his own system and just try and understand the vibe that was going on in the dressing room and keep the momentum going. I do see 100% what you are saying and very few players will ever be 'complete' there is always something they can improve on.
 
Harryflashman said:
I think he’s a really decent manager but a couple of things I wonder if he’s better at setting up a team on the counter attack than he would be with one that dominating the ball , he does seem a bit wed to that but if could be given the players he as and that he’s at Kilmarnock . Secondly and a bit sadly his response to the sectarian abuse he suffered , it obviously affected him and i’d Imagine it’s only a taste of what he’d get if he moved . I think it’s awful that it could be a consideration but I wonder if it’d go through the mind of those making the decision I also wonder would he want to put himself through it .

I think his results the last 12 months though probably him a very strong case to be high up on any short list .
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I'd have thought Clarke would have been a shoe in up to the recent events and let's remember it was similar events which help pressure Lennon out of Parkhead last time.
Moyes would now walk over hot coals for the job but would the Celtic board now have the confidence in him after his last 3 jobs, hard one to call but I would think Rodgers going will boost Rangers rather than having the reverse effect.
Hard one to call but maybe give it to Lennon until the end of the season then take stock.
 
Simon Buttle said:
Ferdinand was one of the best defenders of his generation in the world, Jagielka was an okish defender. Ferdinand won things, Jags did'nt, sorry but i just don't see what someone like him is going to learn from watching videos of Phil Jagielka, just my view that's all.
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You can always learn from others. Ferdinand relies on his pace, but was losing it (or had already lost it). Jagielka would have given him a model to adapt his game.

Just because Rio was a great defender, it does not make him infallible. His performances that season and QPR the next prove the case against him.
 
He's a big enough rat already for Celtic fans, but if Celtic lose the title this season and the 10-in-a-row dream goes up in smoke he'll be seen as one of the biggest villains in that club's history.
 

I suppose for Brendan it's more a case of where do you see yourself going?

Do you really want to stick at being the manager of a big fish in a very small pond, and an absolutely unnoticed one as far as wider European football goes? - Acclaim in Scotland and totally invisible and irrelevant to everyone in Europe?

Or do you want to be on the bigger stage again, with worldwide focus on how you can get Leicester competing against really top star players managed by the very best in the business?

Then there's the financial side which goes with the richest league in the world where even mid and lower ranked clubs have income Scottish clubs can only dream about.

Celtic may play a few matches a year in Europe, which usually brings them back down to earth fairly quickly too, but they play every week in a non competitive poorly financed football backwater which hardly anyone ever watches outside Scotland.

Where could he really have gone with Celtic, just win another one team league yet again ? - it must be a real dampener for an ambitious manager anxious to make his way at the top again.

The burgeoning finances of premier league football and the attraction of coming up against top class managers in front of the massed media and packed stadia home and away is another world.

TV deals and finances have made it a magnet for anyone with ambition, Guardiola, José when in his prime, Klopp etc, its worldwide, the big league, the place to be.

He's experienced that before with Swansea and Liverpool and wants another taste, it's worldwide and the big league.

To carry on being the big fish in the puddle or move onto a greater stage? Leicester, although now enjoying worldwide renown and unrivalled (given their size) name recognition after arguably the greatest shock in football, have progressed since being a second tier or struggling first tier club. It's true they haven't the stadium, support or history of Celtic, but they don't have to compete against absolute dross every week in a league going nowhere, either.

Do well at Leicester and, although a good job in itself, it will be noticed, both at home and in Europe, even domestic cups are worth it. Roberto Martinez and Ronald Koeman have moved onto international football after being sacked, so even failure in this league still gets your name up there in peoples thoughts and your whole record good times included, not just the bad, is taken into account.

For Europe, the manager of Celtic is pretty much anonymous, we in England being part of Britain get a false sense of just how unimportant it is, as the BBC and commercial sports news networks go relatively big on it, Europe gets nothing even remotely similar, for them it's the equivalent of the Swedish or Norwegian league.

The premier league, even if your realistic limit is seventh is a no brainer really given he can't achieve much more up there anyway and any even modest achievements in England would be far more noticed abroad.

An analogy could almost be made with Sunday League park football vs Wembley

If he has any ambition left he really had to take the Leicester job.
 
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Chris O'Connor said:
I suppose for Brendan it's more a case of where do you see yourself going?

Do you really want to stick at being the manager of a big fish in a very small pond, and an absolutely unnoticed one as far as wider European football goes? - Acclaim in Scotland and totally invisible and irrelevant to everyone in Europe?

Or do you want to be on the bigger stage again, with worldwide focus on how you can get Leicester competing against really top star players managed by the very best in the business?

Then there's the financial side which goes with the richest league in the world where even mid and lower ranked clubs have income Scottish clubs can only dream about.

Celtic may play a few matches a year in Europe, which usually brings them back down to earth fairly quickly too, but they play every week in a non competitive poorly financed football backwater which hardly anyone ever watches outside Scotland.

Where could he really have gone with Celtic, just win another one team league yet again ? - it must be a real dampener for an ambitious manager anxious to make his way at the top again.

The burgeoning finances of premier league football and the attraction of coming up against top class managers in front of the massed media and packed stadia home and away is another world.

TV deals and finances have made it a magnet for anyone with ambition, Guardiola, José when in his prime, Klopp etc, its worldwide, the big league, the place to be.

He's experienced that before with Swansea and Liverpool and wants another taste, it's worldwide and the big league.

To carry on being the big fish in the puddle or move onto a greater stage? Leicester, although now enjoying worldwide renown and unrivalled (given their size) name recognition after arguably the greatest shock in football, have progressed since being a second tier or struggling first tier club. It's true they haven't the stadium, support or history of Celtic, but they don't have to compete against absolute dross every week in a league going nowhere, either.

Do well at Leicester and, although a good job in itself, it will be noticed, both at home and in Europe, even domestic cups are worth it. Roberto Martinez and Ronald Koeman have moved onto international football after being sacked, so even failure in this league still gets your name up there in peoples thoughts and your whole record good times included, not just the bad, is taken into account.

For Europe, the manager of Celtic is pretty much anonymous, we in England being part of Britain get a false sense of just how unimportant it is, as the BBC and commercial sports news networks go relatively big on it, Europe gets nothing even remotely similar, for them it's the equivalent of the Swedish or Norwegian league.

The premier league, even if your realistic limit is seventh is a no brainer really given he can't achieve much more up there anyway and any even modest achievements in England would be far more noticed abroad.

An analogy could almost be made with Sunday League park football vs Wembley

If he has any ambition left he really had to take the Leicester job.
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The money being thrown at the PL makes any mid table team attractive.
And the league up in Scotland can't be that bad if he's been approached because his record in Europe is abysmal.
 
Simon Buttle said:
Ferdinand was one of the best defenders of his generation in the world, Jagielka was an okish defender. Ferdinand won things, Jags did'nt, sorry but i just don't see what someone like him is going to learn from watching videos of Phil Jagielka, just my view that's all.
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No he wasn’t. He was an over the hill crock, as you could see by his performances both that season, and his embarrassing handful of games at QPR.

A great player in his day, but totally past it. A symbol for what Fergie left behind, ina lot of ways.
 

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