2022/23 Sean Dyche

[D. Amokachi]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think he has won 7 points in his first 6 games (including two against Arsenal and one at Anfield). He has done that without a striker worthy of the title. If he keeps that points rate up we should finish on 36 points. Will that be enough to stay up?

 

[TheBigIguana]

Ah here we go, your excuse for players who have NEVER scored goals in the Premier League consistently is that they're just playing on the wrong side. It's boring and wrong.

Iwobi has never been a good goalscorer. It just isn't him. McNeil's goals for Everton and Burnley have all come from the left, bar one great shot against us in 2021.

Against Villa, Iwobi and McNeil actually combined for what should have been a great chance, but because McNeil refuses to use his right foot, he didn't pull the trigger.

Whatever side they're on, they are our starting wingers and between them they've scored four league goals in 5 seasons.

Last summer, we signed a striker who a) doesn't fit the profile that was needed because he's slow and small and b) has underperformed his xG in a side that always created good chances consistently for the previous three years.

Since Dyche took over, we're 7th in the league for non-penalty expected goals (7.3), so we've underperformed by over 4.

For reference, before Dyche, we were 16th for npxG, so there is clear improvement when it comes to the quality/quantity of chances we create. It's still not good enough and a lot of that comes back down to players making poor decisions when in the final third - because, get this, they are not very good.

So we are definitely not 'doing nothing'. They are this bad when it comes to converting chances, this isn't bloody rocket science. You think they're good, but every bit of evidence that hits you in your face suggests they are not, and then you just come up with tripe about Iwobi and McNeil playing on the wrong side.

I don't think Dyche is a brilliant manager at all. I think he's deeply average but to say we aren't looking better going forward is simply wrong. We are, but we do not have the quality or composure to finish chances. Do you think McNeil scores that 2nd goal that Johnson did the other day? Do you ever see Iwobi getting in place for a back post tap-in? They just aren't good at putting the ball in the net, and it's what will cost us.

Again every single player in our attack bar McNeil is going to score a number below their best season. And McNeil has never been consistently used on the right bar 6 games or so post Dyche at Burnley last season when he played reasonably well. There is more here than we're getting. That is not the same as saying Maupay is world class. But a guy who scored 8 a season is now going to score 1 and we think it's all because he's not good, which he isn't, without looking at maybe he's not being given a great chance either.

I think McNeil playing on the right gets the shot off that Johnson did and Iwobi playing on the right doesn't. So who has a chance of it going in?

 

[badloaf]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think he has won 7 points in his first 6 games (including two against Arsenal and one at Anfield). He has done that without a striker worthy of the title. If he keeps that points rate up we should finish on 36 points. Will that be enough to stay up?

Hard to tell given the chaos around us but you wouldn’t bet on it being enough. He’s trying to get us creating more chances though, which is the best we can hope for given the paucity of our front line, and we are creating more than under Lampard.

 

[Colonel Getafe]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think he has won 7 points in his first 6 games (including two against Arsenal and one at Anfield). He has done that without a striker worthy of the title. If he keeps that points rate up we should finish on 36 points. Will that be enough to stay up?

Could very easily go either way with 36 points. It's as much about what the rest of the bottom 7 teams do as much as what we do - we have played a game more after all.

Better signs under Dyche than Lampard (although not a high bar), but let's not overlook the possible new manager affect vs Arsenal and a bonkers goal to edge past Leeds you're not likely to see anytime again soon. For those two good results there were still two winnable games v Villa and Forest we let slip. Bit too simplistic to say we "should get" X points based on a very small sample size. Too many variables to hang your hat on it.

 

[steven]

Could very easily go either way with 36 points. It's as much about what the rest of the bottom 7 teams do as much as what we do - we have played a game more after all.

Better signs under Dyche than Lampard (although not a high bar), but let's not overlook the possible new manager affect vs Arsenal and a bonkers goal to edge past Leeds you're not likely to see anytime again soon. For those two good results there were still two winnable games v Villa and Forest we let slip. Bit too simplistic to say we "should get" X points based on a very small sample size. Too many variables to hang your hat on it.

It’s fine lines. Arguably should have beaten villa (that glaring maupay miss especially when it was goalless) and forest.

We aren’t going to get any easy wins but I feel under dyche we will be in with a chance in most games. It’s again whether we can get the right side of enough of them - it’ll do down to the wire…

 

[BlueToff]

Again every single player in our attack bar McNeil is going to score a number below their best season. And McNeil has never been consistently used on the right bar 6 games or so post Dyche at Burnley last season when he played reasonably well. There is more here than we're getting. That is not the same as saying Maupay is world class. But a guy who scored 8 a season is now going to score 1 and we think it's all because he's not good, which he isn't, without looking at maybe he's not being given a great chance either.

I think McNeil playing on the right gets the shot off that Johnson did and Iwobi playing on the right doesn't. So who has a chance of it going in?

Maupay has scored 1 goal in 32 PL appearances now. Half of those were for Brighton.

McNeil playing on the right also gets bogged down doing the same thing as he can't use his right foot. FWIW when he switched the other day and combined with Iwobi in the first half down the right there were some neat moves but he attempted two crosses that both were crap and didn't beat the first man. He had one good shot that Navas tipped over.

If we had 10 games to put him there and see how it worked, sound, but we don't, and all of his best moments come consistently from the left. Could we see it for a few more moments in games? I think so, I think switching it up for 15 mins every now and then is a good idea. But he needs someone to link up with over there because he's not got the pace to create space for himself regularly when he refuses to use his right foot.

We are creating chances now - at least in terms of quantity though also on 'big chances' (which is a woolly stat I know) we're on the up too. But we aren't making the most of the positions we're getting into. it's because they all lack that composure in the final third. We saw that with Gray's chance v Forest, we saw it when Gana got through in the 2nd half and had the chance to cut back but it was easily blocked.

On the Maupay front no maybe he hasn't been given a great chance but in the games under Dyche he is simply not even getting into the positions to be able to have any impact. Look at Coleman's goal v Leeds. He's not even making an effort to get into the box - he's the bloody striker!

We are where we are not because these players are badly underperforming. Yes, they're making mistakes that compound issues, and so is Dyche (and so did Lampard) but push comes to shove they're just a collective of very average players.

If you rely on Alex Iwobi to be your creative hub, you're going to struggle.

If you rely on Demarai Gray to be your consistent goal threat from the wings, you're going to struggle. (Ditto Gordon when he was here).

If you rely on Dwight McNeil to come in and replace the Richarlison impact, you're going to struggle.

If you rely on Neal Maupay to effect games like Calvert-Lewin, you're going to struggle.

All of the above players to have some positives, for sure. They all have some modicum of talent. None of them have shown anything through their careers that suggests they know how to string it together consistently.

 

[D. Amokachi]

Could very easily go either way with 36 points. It's as much about what the rest of the bottom 7 teams do as much as what we do - we have played a game more after all.

Better signs under Dyche than Lampard (although not a high bar), but let's not overlook the possible new manager affect vs Arsenal and a bonkers goal to edge past Leeds you're not likely to see anytime again soon. For those two good results there were still two winnable games v Villa and Forest we let slip. Bit too simplistic to say we "should get" X points based on a very small sample size. Too many variables to hang your hat on it.

Could very easily go either way with 36 points. It's as much about what the rest of the bottom 7 teams do as much as what we do - we have played a game more after all.

Better signs under Dyche than Lampard (although not a high bar), but let's not overlook the possible new manager affect vs Arsenal and a bonkers goal to edge past Leeds you're not likely to see anytime again soon. For those two good results there were still two winnable games v Villa and Forest we let slip. Bit too simplistic to say we "should get" X points based on a very small sample size. Too many variables to hang your hat on it.

Agree that you can’t make assumptions about what will happen based on the previous 6 games. However, I do think there are some encouraging signs e.g. the Xg is much better under Dyche. If DCL can get on the pitch for a few games that should be reflected in results. The frustrating thing is that Dyche wasn’t appointed in November, as I think we would probably be comfortable by now.

 

[Walken]

Happy to be vaulted on this

The signs are there, the improvement is coming.

Believe me.

What a surprise to see you pipe up after the weekend, sheer coincidence

 

[Goat]

Ah here we go, your excuse for players who have NEVER scored goals in the Premier League consistently is that they're just playing on the wrong side. It's boring and wrong.

No mate, Iwobi has just been badly used for the last 9 years, he just needs somebody who can unlock his talent and the Golden boot is in his grasp.

3 goals is the most he has scored in a season.

Poor Alex, if only somebody understood him.

 

[TheBigIguana]

Maupay has scored 1 goal in 32 PL appearances now. Half of those were for Brighton.

McNeil playing on the right also gets bogged down doing the same thing as he can't use his right foot. FWIW when he switched the other day and combined with Iwobi in the first half down the right there were some neat moves but he attempted two crosses that both were crap and didn't beat the first man. He had one good shot that Navas tipped over.

If we had 10 games to put him there and see how it worked, sound, but we don't, and all of his best moments come consistently from the left. Could we see it for a few more moments in games? I think so, I think switching it up for 15 mins every now and then is a good idea. But he needs someone to link up with over there because he's not got the pace to create space for himself regularly when he refuses to use his right foot.

We are creating chances now - at least in terms of quantity though also on 'big chances' (which is a woolly stat I know) we're on the up too. But we aren't making the most of the positions we're getting into. it's because they all lack that composure in the final third. We saw that with Gray's chance v Forest, we saw it when Gana got through in the 2nd half and had the chance to cut back but it was easily blocked.

On the Maupay front no maybe he hasn't been given a great chance but in the games under Dyche he is simply not even getting into the positions to be able to have any impact. Look at Coleman's goal v Leeds. He's not even making an effort to get into the box - he's the bloody striker!

We are where we are not because these players are badly underperforming. Yes, they're making mistakes that compound issues, and so is Dyche (and so did Lampard) but push comes to shove they're just a collective of very average players.

If you rely on Alex Iwobi to be your creative hub, you're going to struggle.

If you rely on Demarai Gray to be your consistent goal threat from the wings, you're going to struggle. (Ditto Gordon when he was here).

If you rely on Dwight McNeil to come in and replace the Richarlison impact, you're going to struggle.

If you rely on Neal Maupay to effect games like Calvert-Lewin, you're going to struggle.

All of the above players to have some positives, for sure. They all have some modicum of talent. None of them have shown anything through their careers that suggests they know how to string it together consistently.

You're never going to agree but none of what you've said changes that we've yet to have a manager put any effort into getting the best from the players. Lampard may have tried tbf but he's just woefully ill-equipped for managing a top flight team. Now Dyche isn't trying.

We're going to score under 35 goals for the season. I don't care how many times you and everyone else blames the players there is a major managerial issue if that's happening and that is the part we could fix before the end of the season. It's not acceptable to not try.

 

[Goat]

You're never going to agree but none of what you've said changes that we've yet to have a manager put any effort into getting the best from the players. Lampard may have tried tbf but he's just woefully ill-equipped for managing a top flight team. Now Dyche isn't trying.

We're going to score under 35 goals for the season. I don't care how many times you and everyone else blames the players there is a major managerial issue if that's happening and that is the part we could fix before the end of the season. It's not acceptable to not try.

There isnt a manager alive that can turn Alex Iwobi into a productive footballer.

Hes a lazy, lazy man.

 

[BlueToff]

You're never going to agree but none of what you've said changes that we've yet to have a manager put any effort into getting the best from the players. Lampard may have tried tbf but he's just woefully ill-equipped for managing a top flight team. Now Dyche isn't trying.

We're going to score under 35 goals for the season. I don't care how many times you and everyone else blames the players there is a major managerial issue if that's happening and that is the part we could fix before the end of the season. It's not acceptable to not try.

What do you mean by this ffs?

In what way is Dyche not trying? What type of football do you think these players are good at that he isn't playing to?

Yes, we are going to score under 35 goals. Yes, some of that is on management, but most of that is on recruiting players who simply DO NOT SCORE GOALS.

Again, I've got to ask if you actually watch our games if you don't think we're now not trying to attack more under Dyche?

I've pointed out the facts, the 7th-highest non-pen xG in the league since he took over. You know enough about stats to know that a npxG of 7.3, resulting in only 3 actual non-pen goals, suggests that the players are actually the issue, don't you?

We had 10 shots v Forest, as many as they did. We had 3 on target to their 4. We had 15 shots v Villa (they had 9), 5 on target (they had 5). Bloody hell, against Arsenal we had 8 shots and got 5 on target yet nobody bar Gray at the end forced Ramsdale into a meaningful save - might be because two of those shots came from our fearsome frontman Maupay.

33 shots across our last three games isn't not trying to score or get the best out of the crap we have.

Our attack is rubbish and the compensation for that unfortuantely is getting more players forward but then the risk associated - because they're so error-prone, because they're not very good - is we get caught out in transition an awful lot.

In fact I think it's much more fair to be critical of Dyche for the defensive side of the game than it is the attacking side. I think he's absolutely doing what he can with the attack when it comes to a style (maybe he's not using the right personnel at times but his options are very limited). Defensively we look worryingly all over the place - and as I've said, thinking Keane will fix that is mental.

 

[BlueToff]

There isnt a manager alive that can turn Alex Iwobi into a productive football.

Hes a lazy, lazy man.

Tbf I won't have that he's lazy.

He's just incredibly erratic. Does something really well and then decides to try and hit a pass straight through a player standing a yard in front of him. Literally all of the time, too.

 

[Goat]

Tbf I won't have that he's lazy.

He's just incredibly erratic. Does something really well and then decides to try and hit a pass straight through a player standing a yard in front of him. Literally all of the time, too.

Big Oil HATES it when you call him lazy.

Look, we saw what happens when he tries, for that month while he was after a pay rise he played football.

Maybe its not lazy, but theres certainly a lack of application, bottling out of tackles every game, he couldnt care less about the club.

Now im not naive to believe that players bleed blue, but hes a coward of a man.

 

[TheBigIguana]

What do you mean by this ffs?

In what way is Dyche not trying? What type of football do you think these players are good at that he isn't playing to?

Yes, we are going to score under 35 goals. Yes, some of that is on management, but most of that is on recruiting players who simply DO NOT SCORE GOALS.

Again, I've got to ask if you actually watch our games if you don't think we're now not trying to attack more under Dyche?

I've pointed out the facts, the 7th-highest non-pen xG in the league since he took over. You know enough about stats to know that a npxG of 7.3, resulting in only 3 actual non-pen goals, suggests that the players are actually the issue, don't you?

We had 10 shots v Forest, as many as they did. We had 3 on target to their 4. We had 15 shots v Villa (they had 9), 5 on target (they had 5). Bloody hell, against Arsenal we had 8 shots and got 5 on target yet nobody bar Gray at the end forced Ramsdale into a meaningful save - might be because two of those shots came from our fearsome frontman Maupay.

33 shots across our last three games isn't not trying to score or get the best out of the crap we have.

Our attack is rubbish and the compensation for that unfortuantely is getting more players forward but then the risk associated - because they're so error-prone, because they're not very good - is we get caught out in transition an awful lot.

In fact I think it's much more fair to be critical of Dyche for the defensive side of the game than it is the attacking side. I think he's absolutely doing what he can with the attack when it comes to a style (maybe he's not using the right personnel at times but his options are very limited). Defensively we look worryingly all over the place - and as I've said, thinking Keane will fix that is mental.

The xG stuff is very set play dependent. Against Forest .95 NPxG (which isn't hugely impressive btw) and .5 from set plays. Villa was 1.54 and 1.0 from set plays. Leeds was 1.54 and 1.12 from set plays. Weirdly Arsenal is where most of our big open play chances have come from and we did nothing period against the RS. Total we're around 5 from open play in 6 games. Still underperfomance but also no where near good enough.

You might get slightly different figures based on the site you use but the picture stays the same regardless. The set plays will count obviously but you are going to have to be better from open play too.

And this is my criticism. You're playing a passable number ten on the right where he SUCKS. You're not playing a guy who can at least get shots off even if the decision making stinks. You're playing a left footer who only goes left on the left so he can only really cross and then playing a 5'8 striker at the end of those crosses. This also eliminates the LB (who is bad I know) from being an overlapping threat for large periods. That striker has shown some ability to link play and is now not helpful in that area because no one is really near him to link with. What it leads to is a team that struggles from open play. I understand they aren't turning into 2011 Barcelona! But I think some changes to the system and reshuffling of personnel can give us just a little bit more and give us a chance to win a few more points.

Overall what we're doing has a ton of positives and that's why it's frustrating to see us not making any changes to just get slightly better. We only need to get slightly better to definitely stay up.