2023/24 Sean Dyche

[Neiler]

But a lot of the adversity is of his own making.

You're talking around my point a bit, though, mate. To reiterate: we currently have 25 points. We do not have 31 points, no matter whether we should have.

We have other teams around us on similar point totals who are also likely to pick up points in these last 10 matches. On current form, under the work this manager is doing now and in those last 11 games you referenced, do we think it likely that we will get more points in the last 10 matches than those other teams around us?

That's the discussion to be had and that I'm trying to have, essentially. I didn't even say we should 100% fire him. Just that we have to be thinking about it. It's absolutely ludicrous to act like such an option shouldn't even be on the table for a manager who hasn't won in 3 months.

How is the adversity of his own making 31 points with 10 games to go is his performance, that would have comfortably safe and is progress from last year - we are talking about his performance.

I know we have 25 points mate, i know the job of work ahead - but this is a debate about the managers performance over the season, hes earned 31 points, everyone knows the best indicator of future performance is what youve done proceeding.

I absolutely do, i think we're better then Forest and Luton and i think wel prove it to, as i said we've finished prob our toughest block of games, beaten by City Twice, Spurs and Utd - no shame given were we are at. WHU and Wolves - disappointing and we got points from the rest. That all happened during Xmas/Jan, with fixture cogestion, injury, suspension, Afcon and a paper thin squad that looked gassed since. Three weeks be good for us and we have decent fixtures ahead. Im very bullish, because weve a good manager

If you dont win in 11 questions will be asked, i accept that, its a poor run, im just deconstructing is all. It hasn't been 11 losses on the trot or anything and weve been unlucky, i think even his biggest critics would accept weve been competitive.

 

[bicycleheader]

Whether they deserve it or not

And whether it's a big small or middling factor in this terrible run

I think some of the drop off in performances from players who were playing "ok" could do with this rest period now and hope some of the come back more energised.

We only need the needle nudged a bit in these tight games each week to ensure we stay out if the bottom 3

 

[Gilbert..]

He’s had a better squad than what Lampard had last year. He lost Mina and Godfrey first game, doucoure 2nd game at villa, you know the same guy, who everyone has made excuses for dyche not winning games because doucoure was injured. Lampard had holgate playing games, Tom Davies and Rondon up front , before we bought maupay.

I think it’s hard to make players better unless they’re youngsters, but good managers find other ways to improve as a collective. Dyche is a one trick pony, yes it will probably keep us up most seasons. But we ain’t getting anywhere long term

How have you come to that conclusion when richarlison was easly the best attacking player at the club and was sold. You've quoted a few defenders. Dyche team over the same period as lampards 44 games has let in 22 goals fewer. With no defenders added. Whats all this he had tom davies up front? Davies started 6 games in two years and he wasnt up front.
There are 5 additions under dyche to the squad. Beto, danjuma harrison chermitti and young. Harrison apart hardly any of the others have even played. Take away Richarlison and how has he had a better squad.

 

[blueboy72]

How have you come to that conclusion when richarlison was easly the best attacking player at the club and was sold. You've quoted a few defenders. Dyche team over the same period as lampards 44 games has let in 22 goals fewer. With no defenders added. Whats all this he had tom davies up front? Davies started 6 games in two years and he wasnt up front.
There are 5 additions under dyche to the squad. Beto, danjuma harrison chermitti and young. Harrison apart hardly any of the others have even played. Take away Richarlison and how has he had a better squad.

Was on about the start of last season, he didn’t have Richarlison, he lost Godfrey Mina, doucoure. DCL first start was game 12, game 13 was palace 3-0. He had iwobi , Tom Davies, playing games in midfield Onana was 20 never played in the prem. James Garner the same. He played Rondon, up front, gray played up front as did McNeil and Gordon, then the savour maupay turned up. And holgate was getting games at the back, Dyche has a better squad and options this season

 

[Toffeeback]

How is the adversity of his own making 31 points with 10 games to go is his performance, that would have comfortably safe and is progress from last year - we are talking about his performance.

I know we have 25 points mate, i know the job of work ahead - but this is a debate about the managers performance over the season, hes earned 31 points, everyone knows the best indicator of future performance is what youve done proceeding.

I absolutely do, i think we're better then Forest and Luton and i think wel prove it to, as i said we've finished prob our toughest block of games, beaten by City Twice, Spurs and Utd - no shame given were we are at. WHU and Wolves - disappointing and we got points from the rest. That all happened during Xmas/Jan, with fixture cogestion, injury, suspension, Afcon and a paper thin squad that looked gassed since. Three weeks be good for us and we have decent fixtures ahead. Im very bullish, because weve a good manager

If you dont win in 11 questions will be asked, i accept that, its a poor run, im just deconstructing is all. It hasn't been 11 losses on the trot or anything and weve been unlucky, i think even his biggest critics would accept weve been competitive.

My point about the adversity is that it's not 100% to do with the points deduction. Some of the current adversity is also created by not having won in 3 months. Which is absolutely the manager's responsibility. How could it not be?

Talking of what he's done preceding as an indicator of future performance: We picked up 12 of those 31 points during a four-game winning streak, right? That's really great. I'm not saying those don't count. Not at all. But it does mean that we picked up, what - 19 points in the other 24 matches? So the past performance hasn't exactly been electric - overall - has it?

So what's the better indicator - a 4-match hot streak or 24 matches?

 

[Neiler]

My point about the adversity is that it's not 100% to do with the points deduction. Some of the current adversity is also created by not having won in 3 months. Which is absolutely the manager's responsibility. How could it not be?

Talking of what he's done preceding as an indicator of future performance: We picked up 12 of those "31" points during a four-game winning streak, right? That's really great. I'm not saying those don't count. Not at all. But it does mean that we picked up, what - 19 points in the other 24 matches? So the past performance hasn't exactly been electric - overall - has it?

So what's the better indicator - a 4-match hot streak or 24 matches?

Not sure were you are getting three months mate we beat Burnley in mid Dec and Palace in the Cup in Jan, the reality is in that time we've been beaten by 3 of the top 6, 4 times, had two bad results VS Wolves - were we were gassed and WHU - which was ridiculous - everything else we got points from. Do people expect us to beat City twice, Spurs and Utd? - we actually should have got a result at Spurs and Utd.

31 points over 28 matches is a great return mate from the place weve come from - i honestly don't care when they come or how, just that they come and are cumulatively impactful, form and fixtures are like a grandfather clock, you swing in and out of them, we are about to swing into a nice run of games, with a decent rest ahead of us and we have proven we are capable.

I do have criticism of Dyche incidentally, i think he plays far to risky and open if im being honest, id be critical of the big club effect on him.

 

[windymiller]

Not sure were you are getting three months mate we beat Burnley in mid Dec and Palace in the Cup in Jan, the reality is in that time we've been beaten by 3 of the top 6, 4 times, had two bad results VS Wolves - were we were gassed and WHU - which was ridiculous - everything else we got points from. Do people expect us to beat City twice, Spurs and Utd? - we actually should have got a result at Spurs and Utd.

31 points over 28 matches is a great return mate from the place weve come from - i honestly don't care when they come or how, just that they come and are cumulatively impactful, form and fixtures are like a grandfather clock, you swing in and out of them, we are about to swing into a nice run of games, with a decent rest ahead of us and we have proven we are capable.

I do have criticism of Dyche incidentally, i think he plays far to risky and open if im being honest, id be critical of the big club effect on him.

Our next game is the 30th March. No league wins in three and a half months, one cup win in two and three quarter months at that point. It's not a good run no matter how many cherry picked stats you chuck at it.

 

[Ruairi77]

Not sure were you are getting three months mate we beat Burnley in mid Dec and Palace in the Cup in Jan, the reality is in that time we've been beaten by 3 of the top 6, 4 times, had two bad results VS Wolves - were we were gassed and WHU - which was ridiculous - everything else we got points from. Do people expect us to beat City twice, Spurs and Utd? - we actually should have got a result at Spurs and Utd.

31 points over 28 matches is a great return mate from the place weve come from - i honestly don't care when they come or how, just that they come and are cumulatively impactful, form and fixtures are like a grandfather clock, you swing in and out of them, we are about to swing into a nice run of games, with a decent rest ahead of us and we have proven we are capable.

I do have criticism of Dyche incidentally, i think he plays far to risky and open if im being honest, id be critical of the big club effect on him.

You think Dyche should be more cautious and conservative in his approach??

 

[Bez2k2k]

Every team gets injury’s though. It’s all good saying this manager had that player etc etc. I just simply don’t believe there isn’t anyone in the academy that can’t come in and do more than some of these players. I hate all this not ready for the league nonsense.

 

[nsno-chris]

You think Dyche should be more cautious and conservative in his approach??

Clearly not having a single shot on target during the first half against Palace was like watching the Brazil 70 team

 

[Toffeeback]

Not sure were you are getting three months mate we beat Burnley in mid Dec and Palace in the Cup in Jan, the reality is in that time we've been beaten by 3 of the top 6, 4 times, had two bad results VS Wolves - were we were gassed and WHU - which was ridiculous - everything else we got points from. Do people expect us to beat City twice, Spurs and Utd? - we actually should have got a result at Spurs and Utd.

31 points over 28 matches is a great return mate from the place weve come from - i honestly don't care when they come or how, just that they come and are cumulatively impactful, form and fixtures are like a grandfather clock, you swing in and out of them, we are about to swing into a nice run of games, with a decent rest ahead of us and we have proven we are capable.

I do have criticism of Dyche incidentally, i think he plays far to risky and open if im being honest, id be critical of the big club effect on him.

Mate, I'm genuinely not trying to be sarcastic or funny or whatever here, but do you see how often in this post and others you fall back to making excuses or coulda-shoulda-woulda (or references to the Cup when we've been talking about the league) in order to support the argument that Dyche is actually doing a good job?

And I just can't agree that 31 points in 28 matches is a "great return." It's barely above relegation form. And, like I said before, without that one 4-match hot streak, it's bang-on relegation form.

Honestly, if that's your outlook, I don't see how this is ever going to be a productive conversation between us, and I don't want to get contentious with a fellow Blue, so I'll just move on now.

 

[Ruairi77]

Every team gets injury’s though. It’s all good saying this manager had that player etc etc. I just simply don’t believe there isn’t anyone in the academy that can’t come in and do more than some of these players. I hate all this not ready for the league nonsense.

Also there's no way on gods green earth that the first team manager should let slip publicly that the academy isn't good enough.
How must everyone working in that section of the club (never mind the players) feel.

I think its time for Sean to head back to the pub and pass his time playing looky likeys.

 

[Gilbert..]

Was on about the start of last season, he didn’t have Richarlison, he lost Godfrey Mina, doucoure. DCL first start was game 12, game 13 was palace 3-0. He had iwobi , Tom Davies, playing games in midfield Onana was 20 never played in the prem. James Garner the same. He played Rondon, up front, gray played up front as did McNeil and Gordon, then the savour maupay turned up. And holgate was getting games at the back, Dyche has a better squad and options this season

Tom davies started two games from the start of the season until he was sacked.
you're falsey cherry picking.
But lets say i go along with it anyway. Lampard was sacked when Everton were 19th in the table with no points deduction. 38 goals under lampard. Dyche currently on 49. Over 20 fewer goals conceded. without the points deduction sitting in 14th. Thats all lampard 44 games dyche 46.
I'd say the squads even weaker. 100m went out the door in sales. About 100 pence came in the other way.
So even if we go down that road. He's done far better than lampard anyway.

 

[blueboy72]

He’s had a better squad than what Lampard had last year. He lost Mina and Godfrey first game, doucoure 2nd game at villa, you know the same guy, who everyone has made excuses for dyche not winning games because doucoure was injured. Lampard had holgate playing games, Tom Davies and Rondon up front , before we bought maupay.

I think it’s hard to make players better unless they’re youngsters, but good managers find other ways to improve as a collective. Dyche is a one trick pony, yes it will probably keep us up most seasons. But we ain’t getting anywhere long

Tom davies started two games from the start of the season until he was sacked.
you're falsey cherry picking.
But lets say i go along with it anyway. Lampard was sacked when Everton were 19th in the table with no points deduction. 38 goals under lampard. Dyche currently on 49. Over 20 fewer goals conceded. without the points deduction sitting in 14th. Thats all lampard 44 games dyche 46.
I'd say the squads even weaker. 100m went out the door in sales. About 100 pence came in the other way.
So even if we go down that road. He's done far better than lampard anyway.

He’s done better yes. And in the end lampards stats were terrible that’s why he got sacked. Usually that’s how it works, dyches stats are falling like a stone, they probably did before he was sacked at Burnley. My point was he had a better squad than Lampard hard last season, not sure how you can say otherwise.

Lampard had tarks, Keane, holgate and Coady as CB’s.
Gana, iwobi. Tom Davies and 2 novices Onana/garner as midfielders. McNeil, gray, Gordon as wingers. Rondon maupay as strikers. DCL came back in November??

Dyche has better CB’s more options at full back, has now more experience in midfield. And better options at striker and has a fully fit doucoure for opening half of the season. And he was another dyche get out of jail card. Doucoure injured what’s dyche supposed to do

 

[blueboy72]

Mate, I'm genuinely not trying to be sarcastic or funny or whatever here, but do you see how often in this post and others you fall back to making excuses or coulda-shoulda-woulda (or references to the Cup when we've been talking about the league) in order to support the argument that Dyche is actually doing a good job?

And I just can't agree that 31 points in 28 matches is a "great return." It's barely above relegation form. And, like I said before, without that one 4-match hot streak, it's bang-on relegation form.

Honestly, if that's your outlook, I don't see how this is ever going to be a productive conversation between us, and I don't want to get contentious with a fellow Blue, so I'll just move on now.

As they say you get F all for should of’s