2023/24 Sean Dyche

[toffeeblue9]

Bit like the Kenwright thread this . Dychettes stooges defending him.
Hes the same as Kenwright out of his depth.
Noise, mentality, slap, .
Had 3 weeks come Bournemouth and doesn’t have them fired up fighting for the shirt, and not get anything from the game.. He needs firing.
Dychettes will be like “oh but who? He’s the best we can get. “
Anyone in the Street end lemo’d up couldn’t do any worse.

Without points deductions, we'd be 14th and that's the only way you can judge him. My argument until very recently was that people were expecting too much of a squad which has scraped out of a relegation fight at the death for two successive years. That argument, based on our recent run of form, is beginning to wear a little thin, I'd have to accept. We are probably now just about the point where what we've delivered this season is acceptable based on what came before. However, the margins are now pretty narrow - unless we start picking up points immediately he's probably going to fall below the line for what I'd have deemed a reasonable return this season.

 

[Marius57]

More concerned about the squad as a whole really. And. I don't think we can say it's been successful for anyone besides Branthwaite because everyone has regressed. That may point to the fact that Branthwaite is just a superior talent, and maybe Dyche should be a little more involved in trying to get some wins. That's what he is paid 5mil a year for right?

Branthwaite progressed because of his loan away from the club, not because of anything Dyche has done. He came back from his loan, and went away with the U21s and then came into the team and immediately started performing at this level, it was nothing Dyche did.

 

[Gilbert..]

Maybe I do but you need to take your head out of Dyche’s arse
Most of them forwards are championship forwards, DCL has been an international. And all of us wouldn’t have had DCL on 3 goals this season. And he will also be favourite With the bookies out score the majority them next season. And he definitely will if we have a better and more attack minded manager in the dugout

So has Michael Keane. And he's about as much chance as calvert lewin ever being one again. None.
I'll have that bet with you. Dm and i'll give you good odds.
Burnleys fofana has scored more goals in 6 starts than calvert lewin has in 23. But of course burnley create chances for fun( they're 2nd bottom for chances created)

 

[GoldenToffee]

Aye - Branthwaite for one.

He returned to Everton as a Champions League player. Dyche did all he could not to play him, but when he finally got in and found a natural defensive partner in Tarkowski, he flourished. Tbf I doubt there is much world class coaching going on with him, he's just a one in a million player we've got lucky with and will make us a lot of money.

 

[DualityNSNO]

Without points deductions, we'd be 14th and that's the only way you can judge him. My argument until very recently was that people were expecting too much of a squad which has scraped out of a relegation fight at the death for two successive years. That argument, based on our recent run of form, is beginning to wear a little thin, I'd have to accept. We are probably now just about the point where what we've delivered this season is acceptable based on what came before. However, the margins are now pretty narrow - unless we start picking up points immediately he's probably going to fall below the line for what I'd have deemed a reasonable return this season.

I mean "without points deduction", "if X had scored that chance", but they haven't and we've not won, and those are just shallow excuses at this point. We've not actually won a football game for 3 months and we're not getting the points back - how about we be real for a sec?

 

[Melchizedek]

Mykolenko is one that I don't think is up for debate

I'm tempted to add McNeil and Garner here, but Garner in particular barely played before the last 12 months really

Yeah I suppose Myko. I think McNeil has not been doing as well as last season. Don't know that Garner has really improved either.

 

[toffeeblue9]

I mean "without points deduction", "if X had scored that chance", but they haven't and we've not won, and those are just shallow excuses at this point. We've not actually won a football game for 3 months and we're not getting the points back - how about we be real for a sec?

Feel like you didn't read the whole post and just concentrated on one bit there - it was largely critical.

Having said that - "without points deduction" - well, yes. There's no way Dyche or the team can be judged on their performance without taking that into consideration. You can only judge a manager based on the points he wins, you can't apply a points deduction to him and say he should be judged net of that, surely?

 

[Melchizedek]

Branthwaite progressed because of his loan away from the club, not because of anything Dyche has done. He came back from his loan, and went away with the U21s and then came into the team and immediately started performing at this level, it was nothing Dyche did.

I agree completely. Trying to get others to understand that Branthwaite is the outlier and that is likely to due with his own innate talent and high ceiling.

I know I won't actually convince anyone who like Dyche of this, but the forum is for discussion and opinions.

 

[DualityNSNO]

Feel like you didn't read the whole post and just concentrated on one bit there - it was largely critical.

Having said that - "without points deduction" - well, yes. There's no way Dyche or the team can be judged on their performance without taking that into consideration. You can only judge a manager based on the points he wins, you can't apply a points deduction to him and say he should be judged net of that, surely?

No, I did, just that's worth pointing out as I largely agree with the rest

There is a way to be judged on it - we've not picked up enough points and we're absolute strugglers, with or without the points deduction. A very big part of that is down to the manager, who is his own and our limitation.

He doesn't win points is the actual point, you see. We're playing for 38 dire draws a season and hoping we somehow scrape a win. The excuse for that is "but with these players", etc. Worst home form in forever, abysmal form overall for most of the season, yet safest job in football, which no doubt he'd have even if it wasn't for deductions as he's a fake hard man with soundbites for the fans.

The more time and responsibilities he has with us the more he'll 100% turn us into Burnley. We're about 80% of the way there currently, as it's okay to not win as long as xG and players give their all, and he's never responsible for the crap we play.

 

[NeilMorepies]

What more can Dyche (or any other manager do)?
He sets us up to not concede goals, and create many chances up front. Not his fault if the squad is too poor to convert the chances. He can’t buy players in, he can’t even sell to buy.

You can’t slap a player into being more talented.

 

[DualityNSNO]

What more can Dyche (or any other manager do)?
He sets us up to not concede goals, and create many chances up front. Not his fault if the squad is too poor to convert the chances. He can’t buy players in, he can’t even sell to buy.

You can’t slap a player into being more talented.

 

[roy vernon]

I get your point and don't necessarily disagree, but if you could go back and ask our fanbase who they would want sold out of Richy, the rat, and DCL, I think most would tell you they'd keep DCL as he's most likely to score goals. I assume the management felt the same which is why we are where we are.(I would have kept Richarlison if given the choice)
My point being most folks thought DCL would be getting at least some goals, not go missing for 23? matches.

I said at the time and still believe it today, I would have left Calvert Lewin go 100% before I let Richarlison go, he's twice the player that Calvert Lewin is, was or ever will be.

 

[toffeeblue9]

No, I did, just that's worth pointing out as I largely agree with the rest

There is a way to be judged on it - we've not picked up enough points and we're absolute strugglers, with or without the points deduction. A very big part of that is down to the manager, who is his own and our limitation.

He doesn't win points is the actual point, you see. We're playing for 38 dire draws a season and hoping we somehow scrape a win. The excuse for that is "but with these players", etc. Worst home form in forever, abysmal form overall for most of the season, yet safest job in football, which no doubt he'd have even if it wasn't for deductions as he's a fake hard man with soundbites for the fans.

The more time and responsibilities he has with us the more he'll 100% turn us into Burnley. We're about 80% of the way there currently, as it's okay to not win as long as xG and players give their all, and he's never responsible for the crap we play.

Hmmmm, feel like there's an awful lot of subjective stuff there.

At the end of the season, we will have x number of points - that needs to be an improvement on the last 2 years worth of points. By how many we should improve is open to debate, but I think we'd all agree on the fact that improvement would be required. If Dyche wins, for the sake of argument, 45 points this season, that's an improvement of 9 points on last season which equates to 25% - for a team that's been in the thick of it until the final game or two for two years, that, to me, wouldn't be a terrible return (perhaps my standards are too low, but I'd struggle to back an argument where someone says it should be much more than this). But, we've already lost 6 points and we will lose some more so we are already in the territory of not seeing a net points return much higher than last season.

Take all the subjective stuff out of it and everyone is going to have an opinion about what points return we *should* have, we can disagree on what that figure is but whatever it is, given Dyche and the team can't control any deductions, you'd have to judge them net of that figure.

For instance, controversial opinion incoming, if Dyche "won" 45 points this season, but we got two 6 point deductions and went down as a result, I'd find it hard to blame him.

 

[blueblue]

I don't think it's being selective to say that Brantwaite is the only player in the squad that seems to be improving or having a consistent level of high performance this season.

My point is if only one player out of our squad of 25 is doing well, he is probably the outlier and that success can't be chalked up to the person who is responsible for the whole group.

I would say that Pickford, Tarkowski, Branthwaite , Mykolenko have all done consistently well.
I think McNeill , Garner , Onana in particular all were doing very well earlier in the season but all three are involved every week without a rest and at the moment those three but in particular Garner and McNeill look jaded.
I think Doucoure has not had a bad season but I think we all know his limitations.

I think the point I am making is that most of the players are doing as well as we could expect from them under any manager.
We know that we are suffering from lack of investment in playing staff over probably three to four years.We have brought in a lot of money from the sale of players but we all know unfortunately where that money has gone.

I think we realistically have a squad of maybe fifteen players that we can use, we know that most other premiership clubs have probably five or six extra in their squads.

We are carrying very expensive players like Michael Keane, Andre Gomes, Dele who are contributing nothing to our season but crippling our payroll, I feel there may be more but can't recall anyone else just now.

In other words, we are screwed, it isn't the fault of management ( although they certainly can't be given a free pass either).
The club is in a mess from top to bottom and there is no magic bullet to solve it.
I don't honestly see another manager who will come in and make us better with the players we have.... unfortunately.

 

[DualityNSNO]

Hmmmm, feel like there's an awful lot of subjective stuff there.

At the end of the season, we will have x number of points - that needs to be an improvement on the last 2 years worth of points. By how many we should improve is open to debate, but I think we'd all agree on the fact that improvement would be required. If Dyche wins, for the sake of argument, 45 points this season, that's an improvement of 9 points on last season which equates to 25% - for a team that's been in the thick of it until the final game or two for two years, that, to me, wouldn't be a terrible return (perhaps my standards are too low, but I'd struggle to back an argument where someone says it should be much more than this). But, we've already lost 6 points and we will lose some more so we are already in the territory of not seeing a net points return much higher than last season.

Take all the subjective stuff out of it and everyone is going to have an opinion about what points return we *should* have, we can disagree on what that figure is but whatever it is, given Dyche and the team can't control any deductions, you'd have to judge them net of that figure.

For instance, controversial opinion incoming, if Dyche "won" 45 points this season, but we got two 6 point deductions and went down as a result, I'd find it hard to blame him.

I'd find it extremely easy to blame him - for the crap at home, for not winning for 3 months what equated to several very winnable game, small very much not subjective stuff like that - he's not a winner and never will be.