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2023/24 Sean Dyche

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Curtis said:
His style of football is on the brink of extinction he never evolved because he's an obstinate smug creature of habit , yeah you can't play like kompany with the squad currently at Burnley but on the other extreme you can't play ultra defensive football the entire time and hope you catch teams on set pieces you need a balance and he showed a brief glimpse of him being more fluid with his football which was somewhat successful than reverted back to what he is and knows , it's been calamitous since then
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I won't go into the Kompany thing - it's far more complicated than not having the players, he's made some truly baffling decisions this year, things that you just do not do after winning promotion and I don't want to go off on a tangent.

The thing with Dyche and his football though is that we genuinely did used to play much more expansively than he's shown when his back is up against it and he starts doubling down and getting even more regressive with his approach.

It was evident in his last season at the Turf. We went on a bad run and we started playing the %s even more - played even more direct/limited and it didn't work.

He was forced into changes through injury/suspensions away at Brighton with Cork coming into the side and for once we played the ball on the deck and into feet to Weghorst with Cornet playing off him and convingly stuffed them 3-0.

Then the next game it was back to type, Westwood back in and using Weghorst as a 'head on a stick' (which he couldn't do) long ball galore and the dross started again.

He gets axed after a turgid 2-0 loss away at Norwich and Mike Jackson steps in, takes the shackles off a tad and we get 11 points from the remaining 8 games and nearly do enough to stay up.

Honestly earlier in his Burnley career we played with so much more purpose - zipped the ball about at pace along the deck and pressed with organisation relentlessly.

Always struggled against a low-block with Dyche mind but yeah - it's like it's a different person now. He needs a reset if he wants to continue, imo.
 
Moomin said:
We are a fickle fan base.

Eventually we all turn.

Moyes in the end was too negative and everyone was made up with Martinez for a while and then he had to go as he never focused on the defence.
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Martinez after the first season was highly flawed in his approach and his recruitment beyond the his initial season didn't aid him either, he deserved to go. A slump is one thing one win In 4 months with 8 goals is not tenable and should make someone susceptible to criticism
 

Curtis said:
Martinez after the first season was highly flawed in his approach and his recruitment beyond the his initial season didn't aid him either, he deserved to go. A slump is one thing one win In 4 months with 8 goals is not tenable and should make someone susceptible to criticism
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When we have a new manager next season he will be hyped up as the second coming.

You will all turn on him in the end.
 
DualityNSNO said:
Fair point, but was the ceiling then not the same thing he created and got sacked from? Also England internationals other than Pope probably have a total of 10 appearances between them - Tarks and Keano have 1 or 2 each, etc.?

And got you into Europe in that ridiculous fluke season on negative goal difference and bombed out as quick as possible - great if he'd done it more than once.

We throw around names like that because of two things - one is there's a lot of managers who never have what you've described but have won plenty or done well enough (like David Moyes for example) and the second is that in a rebuild you need someone to be stable enough while still pushing the club forward. Dyche clearly can't and was never going to do that - we're playing for 38 draws a year regardless of who we have, it's how he's been for years. There's a middle ground that neither him nor Kompany found in the Prem - Kompany tries to play football that he doesn't have the players for and is suffering, Dyche's only way to play is negative and for a draw, which also leads to suffering.

Also you counter yourself - now that VK has won the Championship, did he do better in the Prem? Or is it that he didn't want to adapt/change in a different way? Should we prefer to go for him, now that he's tasted victory in a lower level but got smashed in the higher?
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He developed Trippier and Danny Ings as well don't forget. They were doing nothing at Burnley until Sean rocked up.

Lets not downplay the 7th/10th spots with Burnley either - I get that you want to, to suggest he's never been good but he was great for us for the most part - completely changed the club that I thought would never see the top division again.

With regards to names I'm talking about the likes of Schumacher and others of that calibre; I do concede on Moyes but may add he was doing consistently well with PNE but could never get them over the line.

See my other post re Vinny - he's done a ton of truly bizarre things and I'd even argue at times attempted to play even less direct than we did last season.

As for Everton right now? Not sure what the best bet is. I mean, who's even in charge right now? I do think any manager would massively struggle now, especially one that has come from stability and a lot of influence in how they run the footballing operations (a Kompany type)... all I was suggesting with my posts is that it seems to me that it isn't the same Sean Dyche that he once was and that he needs to have a period of reflection if he wants to continue with his managerial career in Football.
 
Moomin said:
We are a fickle fan base.

Eventually we all turn.

Moyes in the end was too negative and everyone was made up with Martinez for a while and then he had to go as he never focused on the defence.
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We're on a terrible run, one which deserves scrutiny.

But has he earned more points in his first full season on the pitch than the last two seasons?

If he keeps us up, as he already would have done without deductions - then it's a brilliant achievement all considered. Surviving relegation is the objective, and massive consensus at the start of the season.

Would sacking him now, or any replacement we could bring in - make any odds? No clue.

But it doesn't matter IMO, because they wont/cant sack him so instead of the negative energy around the manager - attention should be dragging them over the line. As it was under Lampard.
 

Goat said:
The smart people turn on managers before they are appointed.

Carlo was the only right decision we have made since Moyes was sacked.
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I quite liked Martinez , he did get a bit annoying towards the end but getting Kendall to Finch Farm and how he spoke about the club I really liked.

He just needed a good defensive assistant manager to keep him in check.
 
UndercoverClaret said:
I won't go into the Kompany thing - it's far more complicated than not having the players, he's made some truly baffling decisions this year, things that you just do not do after winning promotion and I don't want to go off on a tangent.

The thing with Dyche and his football though is that we genuinely did used to play much more expansively than he's shown when his back is up against it and he starts doubling down and getting even more regressive with his approach.

It was evident in his last season at the Turf. We went on a bad run and we started playing the %s even more - played even more direct/limited and it didn't work.

He was forced into changes through injury/suspensions away at Brighton with Cork coming into the side and for once we played the ball on the deck and into feet to Weghorst with Cornet playing off him and convingly stuffed them 3-0.

Then the next game it was back to type, Westwood back in and using Weghorst as a 'head on a stick' (which he couldn't do) long ball galore and the dross started again.

He gets axed after a turgid 2-0 loss away at Norwich and Mike Jackson steps in, takes the shackles off a tad and we get 11 points from the remaining 8 games and nearly do enough to stay up.

Honestly earlier in his Burnley career we played with so much more purpose - zipped the ball about at pace along the deck and pressed with organisation relentlessly.

Always struggled against a low-block with Dyche mind but yeah - it's like it's a different person now. He needs a reset if he wants to continue, imo.
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That's what I witnessed this season with dyche in a more condensed format , he was playing some degree of expansive football but when the points deduction and some of his preferred players became injured he completely retreated to ultra negative football to the club's detriment, I know everton have major attacking deficiencies but he's had months to mitigate the issue , the trip to Portugal and for us to play the same turgid football with him claiming he haf just one day to work with the players when we had a three week hiatus just solidified how out of depth he is currently.
 
GrandOldTeam said:
We're on a terrible run, one which deserves scrutiny.

But has he earned more points in his first full season on the pitch than the last two seasons?

If he keeps us up, as he already would have done without deductions - then it's a brilliant achievement all considered. Surviving relegation is the objective, and massive consensus at the start of the season.

Would sacking him now, or any replacement we could bring in - make any odds? No clue.

But it doesn't matter IMO, because they wont/cant sack him so instead of the negative energy around the manager - attention should be dragging them over the line. As it was under Lampard.
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We should drag him from the dugout if he loses on Sunday.

But I will go there to fully support the team, 100%.
Moomin said:
I quite liked Martinez , he did get a bit annoying towards the end but getting Kendall to Finch Farm and how he spoke about the club I really liked.

He just needed a good defensive assistant manager to keep him in check.
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That first season was indeed Camelot(@davek).
 
Goat said:
We should drag him from the dugout if he loses on Sunday.
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It's who would replace him.

It's also what it's like behind the scenes.

If he has lost respect/it's iffy behind the scenes like Koeman, then yes.

All about staying in the league - whatever gives us the best odds of that. For me, it feels Dyche or a Baines/Coleman interim. I think Dyche gives us better odds, unless it's gone bad behind the scenes.
 

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