2023/24 Sean Dyche

[Jamo Martinez]

Well, we just got rid of two wingers who were the opposite (Gray and Iwobi). The team's playing much better with wingers who can put in a shift when called on.

I was saying to my son last night how I didn't think McNeil* or Harrison have played particularly well the last couple of games. However , their willingness to work for the team means they aren't a waste of space which the the likes of Gray and Iwobi frequently were when not on form.

* Even though his passing was off in general he put a great cross in for the first goal and a good corner in for the second.

 

[UndercoverClaret]

Parallels to us and Lampard last season, too dogmatic.

When I saw Josh Brownhill on their bench last night, I immediately thought Kompany is inexperienced and dogmatic to his philosophey. He’s their Doucoure, not the most technically gifted but a warrior who wins battles and influences the team to unlock others and you need those.

I think a different manager makes a fist of that Burnley team.

Sorry for a minor thread hijack :

There’s nothing worse than a manager that cannot adapt or change given different circumstances .

The thing is - we mixed it up far more last season - had willing runners in behind and played direct at times; we were often forced to play with high posession becuase teams would stick 10/11 behind the ball - sometimes even in their own half!

I thought this year Kompany would be wanting to implement his style yes but have an element of pragmatism - for large parts this year we’ve been playing a 4-3-3 (again not last night) with one sitting midfielder who’s been getting marked out of the game - no runners in behind and playing Trafford (over the lad that played last night) who can’t pick a pas the same.

It’s left us really disjointed and miles off what we were last season; not to mention the recruitment. Spent a ton on players that are no better than what we have - refused to sign the loan stars that were so good for us last year, yet we’ve started these new lads and the continuity and feel good factor has absolutely gone.

But you’re darn right - ‘attractive football’ is nonsense when you’re getting panned and making daft mistakes. All the best managers mix it up - Ancelotti didn’t go to Goodison and play with a high line did he!

As long as it isn’t long ball hoof and committing 0 bodies forward I don’t mind some direct play - all about creating chances anyway.

 

[Neiler]

Sorry for a minor thread hijack :

There’s nothing worse than a manager that cannot adapt or change given different circumstances .

The thing is - we mixed it up far more last season - had willing runners in behind and played direct at times; we were often forced to play with high posession becuase teams would stick 10/11 behind the ball - sometimes even in their own half!

I thought this year Kompany would be wanting to implement his style yes but have an element of pragmatism - for large parts this year we’ve been playing a 4-3-3 (again not last night) with one sitting midfielder who’s been getting marked out of the game - no runners in behind and playing Trafford (over the lad that played last night) who can’t pick a pas the same.

It’s left us really disjointed and miles off what we were last season; not to mention the recruitment. Spent a ton on players that are no better than what we have - refused to sign the loan stars that were so good for us last year, yet we’ve started these new lads and the continuity and feel good factor has absolutely gone.

But you’re darn right - ‘attractive football’ is nonsense when you’re getting panned and making daft mistakes. All the best managers mix it up - Ancelotti didn’t go to Goodison and play with a high line did he!

As long as it isn’t long ball hoof and committing 0 bodies forward I don’t mind some direct play - all about creating chances anyway.

I think you definitely need the variance mate. You need to be direct but you also need to speed up, slow and control the game with possession at different points, it has to be a mix.

We are a poor possession team, our worst games or games we are beaten in are games were teams come to Goodison particularly and sit back and give us the ball, we find that really difficult as we don’t have those creative technical players to break a line. We are far better at contain and counter, or in the break at the breakdown with the press or we will play percentages on getting on the end of balls.

When I watched Burnley last night, I honestly saw shades of Lampard last season here. Burnley looked to have some good young technical players who may develop, but no real battler or leadership in the team, no one setting the tone.

Possession is fine if teams sit back, but in the PL teams are going to press you high - we did and there was a time for 20 mins in the second half you couldn’t get out of your own half. We had big men in every line and bullied you a bit and you just couldn’t get a Rytham going or break our press much. That’s were your Corks and Brownhills come in they win the battles and create the platform for your technical players and one or two of those looked tidy.

As for Kompany, shades of Lampard he didn’t try and mix it up at all, he stuck to the philosophy the whole game and it wasn’t working. Like Lampard I’m not sure he had to mix it, coming up at the wrong end of table as a player, it takes more then a nice philosophey. It’s the sword Lampard fell on here.

A question really, would Lampard and Kompany have gotten their respective jobs if they weren’t Lampard and Kompany as players and based on their managerial skills or experience - probably not.

Said it the match thread here, I think if Kompany goes and someone else comes in at Burnley and starts from ground zero with Brownhill and one or two others, they could make a fist of that team. Thought it was bananas having him on the bench, he’s a good player and the game was screaming out for the likes of him and a couple of others from a Burnley perspective.

 

[UndercoverClaret]

I think you definitely need the variance mate. You need to be direct but you also need to speed up, slow and control the game with possession at different points, it has to be a mix.

We are a poor possession team, our worst games or games we get beaten in it are game#when teams come to Goodison particularly and sit back and give us the ball, we find that really difficult as we don’t have those creative technical players to break a line. We are far better at contain and counter, or in the breakdown with the press or we will play percentages on getyin*on the end of balls.

When I watched Burnley last night, I honestly had shades of Lampard last season, looked to have some good young technical players who may develop, but no real battler or leadership in the team, no one setting the tone.

Possession is fine if teams sit back, but in the PL teams are going to press you high - we did and there was a time for 20 mins in the second half you couldn’t get out of your own half. We had big men in every line and bullied you a bit and you just couldn’t get a Rytham going. That’s were your Corks and Brownhills come in they win the battles and create the platform for your technical players and one or two looked tidy.

As for Kompany, shades of Lampard he didn’t try and mix it up st all, he stuck to the philosophey thegame and it wasn’t working. Like Lampard I’m not sure he had to mix it, coming up at the wrong end of table as a player, it takes more then a nice philosophey. It’s the sword Lampard fell on here.

A question really, would Lampard and Kompany got their respective jobs if they weren’t Lampard and Kompany as players and based on their mamageriaL skills or expierence probably not- probably not.

Said it the match thread here, I think if Kompany goes and someone else comes in at Burnley and starts from ground zero with Brownhill and one or two others, they could make a fist of that team. Thought it was bananas having him on the bench, he’s a good player and the game was screaming for the likes of him and s couple of others.

We had Brownhill in an attacking midfield role last year pressing from front - interchanging with a deep lying forward and runners from the wings drifting in field (Tella/Benson) or down the line (Zaroury).

We also had much better passes of the ball in defence (Harwood-Belis, Maatsen) who routinely hit long diagonals and line breaking passes. For whatever reason we deemed Harwood-Belis / Tella wasn’t worth 15mill, and instead signed a ton of these floaty winger types and an inferior defender in O’Shea. Maatsen didn’t want to come after a preseason with Chelsea but he was absolutely available earlier in the window but VK and the board thought they could put smart everyone.

It’s really bizarre in all honesty - thrashed at brentford the other weekend only starting two players that played last season.

We have had injuries to our two best centre halves (Beyer, Ekdal) that didn’t play last night but VK even left Ekdal out to start the season.

Worth noting that VK has a lot of control with the transfers/recruitment - I know we outsource or data analytics to his company MUD analytics which I think is a bit wrong (got pelters suggesting this on the clarets message board). I also think this is a reason that Anderlecht effectively let him go because he wanted more control and was obsessed with signing players from anywhere and moving players on - almost like there’s more to squad building than that!

On would VK / Lamps get a shot? Probably not - Lamps especially… he did absolutely nothing with Derby nor Chelsea I was never impressed.
VK came third in a 2 horse race in Belgium, I was a bit skeptical of VK when we got him but last year tbf was brilliant however a lot of our old guard helped with that transition season by providing some steel and identity to us along with the added flair (Brownhill, Cork, Barnes, JayRod, Taylor)

Again sorry to thread hijack, just frustrating atm feel like we’re throwing a lot of good work away.

All the best Toffees

 

[Neiler]

We had Brownhill in an attacking midfield role last year pressing from front - interchanging with a deep lying forward and runners from the wings drifting in field (Tella/Benson) or down the line (Zaroury).

We also had much better passes of the ball in defence (Harwood-Belis, Maatsen) who routinely hit long diagonals and line breaking passes. For whatever reason we deemed Harwood-Belis / Tella wasn’t worth 15mill, and instead signed a ton of these floaty winger types and an inferior defender in O’Shea. Maatsen didn’t want to come after a preseason with Chelsea but he was absolutely available earlier in the window but VK and the board thought they could put smart everyone.

It’s really bizarre in all honesty - thrashed at brentford the other weekend only starting two players that played last season.

We have had injuries to our two best centre halves (Beyer, Ekdal) that didn’t play last night but VK even left Ekdal out to start the season.

Worth noting that VK has a lot of control with the transfers/recruitment - I know we outsource or data analytics to his company MUD analytics which I think is a bit wrong (got pelters suggesting this on the clarets message board). I also think this is a reason that Anderlecht effectively let him go because he wanted more control and was obsessed with signing players from anywhere and moving players on - almost like there’s more to squad building than that!

On would VK / Lamps get a shot? Probably not - Lamps especially… he did absolutely nothing with Derby nor Chelsea I was never impressed.
VK came third in a 2 horse race in Belgium, I was a bit skeptical of VK when we got him but last year tbf was brilliant however a lot of our old guard helped with that transition season by providing some steel and identity to us along with the added flair (Brownhill, Cork, Barnes, JayRod, Taylor)

Again sorry to thread hijack, just frustrating atm feel like we’re throwing a lot of good work away.

All the best Toffees

All the best mate!

 

[DanB90]

All very cosy in here.
Can someone call him a hoarse baked bean or something?

 

[COYBL25]

All very cosy in here.
Can someone call him a hoarse baked bean or something?

Wait until post match Saturday mate, the Da`s are having a nice little rest until then.

 

[Calvin]

This attractive football desire has me stumped.

Who else apart from City and Arsenal play effective, possession based football?

Did you not see the tripe Burnley played last night trying to play possession based football?

What is it that is so bad about the style of play we have?
I bet whoever criticises the style of play can't actually name what they want in a football team.

I wasn’t criticising the present style of football, I enjoy it. What I had mentioned was I think it would be beneficial to be able to play a more possession based game at times against certain opponents. Namely teams that’ll come to Goodison and sit in and try to hit on the counter. It’s my opinion that the best way to deal with teams like that is to push them back, pin them in their own half and then create chances by recycling the ball in and around their 18 yard box / their half and this is achieved by retaining and controlling possession of the football.
I think we are very close to being able to play in this style, we have good enough footballers in most positions, we have pace at the back to squeeze up and hold a high line. It’s about putting teams under sustained pressure until their defence fails which I think is the best approach against a certain style.

 

[Saint Domingo]

All very cosy in here.
Can someone call him a hoarse baked bean or something?

The moment he doesn’t win a game they’ll be right back out don’t worry.

 

[Groucho]

I’ll be honest he’s grown on me greatly.

Would quite like him to pull a Moyes-for-the-modern-day and get us in Europe regularly. Then kick on from there obviously.

I’d like him to also be given the luxury of time that Moyes had.

 

[Calvin]

I’ll be honest he’s grown on me greatly.

Would quite like him to pull a Moyes-for-the-modern-day and get us in Europe regularly. Then kick on from there obviously.

I’d like him to also be given the luxury of time that Moyes had.

Visit to the tattooist soon?
I think the thing is whether he gets the funds needed to bring in the quality needed to give good cover to the starting 11. We have very little depth in a number of areas and in some areas there’s a big drop in quality if there needs to be a change to the starting 11 through injuries or suspensions. And I think we need another option as a no 10, maybe Deli Alli or someone else.
Also being able to keep players at Goodison, Branthwaite, Onana to built a team around.

 

[Saint Domingo]

I’ll be honest he’s grown on me greatly.

Would quite like him to pull a Moyes-for-the-modern-day and get us in Europe regularly. Then kick on from there obviously.

I’d like him to also be given the luxury of time that Moyes had.

If he can guide us to a solid mid table finish this season then he’ll have earned some time in my view. I think the job he did last season was far far better than the credit he gets for it on here given the situation we were in and the opposition he was up against.

I think he’s a lot better a manger than most think he is and he’ll show it here in time in the long run but some just can’t seem to get past the Luton game, or playing Keane for a few games this season, or the fact his name is Sean Dyche and he looks like he does and he used to manage Burnley rather than being a young cool European with a ‘philosophy’.

 

[Raino85]

Sorry for a minor thread hijack :

There’s nothing worse than a manager that cannot adapt or change given different circumstances .

The thing is - we mixed it up far more last season - had willing runners in behind and played direct at times; we were often forced to play with high posession becuase teams would stick 10/11 behind the ball - sometimes even in their own half!

I thought this year Kompany would be wanting to implement his style yes but have an element of pragmatism - for large parts this year we’ve been playing a 4-3-3 (again not last night) with one sitting midfielder who’s been getting marked out of the game - no runners in behind and playing Trafford (over the lad that played last night) who can’t pick a pas the same.

It’s left us really disjointed and miles off what we were last season; not to mention the recruitment. Spent a ton on players that are no better than what we have - refused to sign the loan stars that were so good for us last year, yet we’ve started these new lads and the continuity and feel good factor has absolutely gone.

But you’re darn right - ‘attractive football’ is nonsense when you’re getting panned and making daft mistakes. All the best managers mix it up - Ancelotti didn’t go to Goodison and play with a high line did he!

As long as it isn’t long ball hoof and committing 0 bodies forward I don’t mind some direct play - all about creating chances anyway.

Good post, and it's all there pretty obvious to see from the Burnley games i saw this season (i actually thought this would happen begining of last season but was proven wrong)

You mention the loan lads not being signed? Why didn't you guys go back after Harwood Bellis? Deems a bit odd he's gone back to the Championship, from what i've seen of him he seems solid dependable and a bit of height & strength (which you desperately need in the Premier League)

 

[blulouie]

If he can guide us to a solid mid table finish this season then he’ll have earned some time in my view. I think the job he did last season was far far better than the credit he gets for it on here given the situation we were in and the opposition he was up against.

I think he’s a lot better a manger than most think he is and he’ll show it here in time in the long run but some just can’t seem to get past the Luton game, or playing Keane for a few games this season, or the fact his name is Sean Dyche and he looks like he does and he used to manage Burnley rather than being a young cool European with a ‘philosophy’.

Being half decent for the last 6 games is a very small start to winning me around.

Up til then his record was horrific.
Not just the Luton game but the way we rolled over to Arsenal & Villa away.
He persists playing Young ( like Martinez with Alcaraz & Tim Howard ) when he has cost us badly this season.
His eagerness to put Keane in at the first chance is worrying ( bar weds night )

And his use of subs is shocking , some were running on fumes at West ham , it nearly cost us a great win.

Still an awful lot to improve on for me.

 

[Saint Domingo]

Being half decent for the last 6 games is a very small start to winning me around.

Up til then his record was horrific.
Not just the Luton game but the way we rolled over to Arsenal & Villa away.
He persists playing Young ( like Martinez with Alcaraz & Tim Howard ) when he has cost us badly this season.
His eagerness to put Keane in at the first chance is worrying ( bar weds night )

And his use of subs is shocking , some were running on fumes at West ham , it nearly cost us a great win.

Still an awful lot to improve on for me.

Hasn’t just been the last 6 games. You look at his points tally last season from when he came in. It was better than most of our relegation peers (hence why we stayed up) with what i firmly believe was a very poor team low on confidence beset by injury issues and with difficult fixtures remaining.

He had a poor start to this season results wise even though performances have mostly been there, the results are starting to follow now. Every manager can improve but just taking his worst games for us as conclusive proof he’s a bad manager isn’t a fair metric, he’s not even had 12 months in the job and in my view we’re a far better outfit now than when he took over.