Second Balls

[chicoazul]

Davies is only a young'un, a lot forget that. He's also suffered Koeman/Allardyce and co. Needs time.

Would definitely keep him, but we're not helping the lad with that team around him. Asking him to play a different game to cover missing players too isn't ideal/

OK I’ll accept that well timed backtrack. Vault exemption is yours.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

So, what you're saying is when last season's players are in the team, we play like last season's team?

It's disappointing that 15 months of working with Ancelotti (and his son, who's been given credit for his coaching ability when things have gone well) doesn't appear to have changed it at all though.

Right. Not sure that's relevant to us improving our ability to battle for second balls but OK.

In a remark to it being the same players - you said we've not changed at all.

I think we have improved (including winning second balls) and that's indicative with the results.

As I said in the first post too;

• Doucoure, Allan and Rodriguez improved it ten fold at the start of the season. Doucoure was ran into the ground, Allan was carrying an injury before he eventually missed a big spell and is now looking rusty and Rodriguez is what he is.

The club knew we needed improvement in that area with Doucoure and Allan. They've been unfortunate with injuries there.

More improvement is needed and it's clear Ancelotti knows it's an issue based on his continual comments.

Also don't think you can expect them to turn Gomes, Sigurdsson etc into players who are going to be winning tackles all over. 15 months or not.

 

[chicoazul]

Can’t go without mentioning that Hitler would be fond of this thread.

 

[BlueStevie35]

What frustrates me, and has for years, is that the opposition get those types of breaks with second balls, look at the first goal on Saturday, the ball lands plum for Wood to score then look late on, two shots of ours both deflected wide. We never seem to get that one lucky bobble to score from

 

[LocalNative]

We don't press, we have no urgency or anything.
We're just a reactive team.

It's due to how slow we are mate, all over the field. Aside from DCL, Richarlison and Godfrey we haven't got a slice of pace at all. Gomes, Allan, Davies, Sigurdsson even Doucoure have been our CM's and they're all slow. Adding some pace has to be priority this summer, all over the pitch.

 

[Thomasc]

After a few games now, Ancelotti has referred to spirit/us not winning second balls;



I think he's spot on.

Our lads, particularly our midfield, isn't combative enough.

This team, points wise, is within a sniff of Champions League but you'd be hard pushed to find an Everton team that finished top 10 over the years with a worse midfield.

Doucoure, Allan and Rodriguez improved it ten fold at the start of the season. Doucoure was ran into the ground, Allan was carrying an injury before he eventually missed a big spell and is now looking rusty and Rodriguez is what he is.

We're then left with Iwobi. Davies. Sigurdsson. Gomes. They can't tackle. They're all bullied. They don't want to do the donkey work - they don't press/show enough for the ball. They're not balanced and they're just... passive. Andre Gomes being the most dribbled past player in the top 4 european leagues is indicative of the problem.

I think it's this Ancelotti refers to when he's talking about mentality, not showing spirit and not winning second balls. He's spot on.

For me, midfield remains the priority in the summer.

I see we're linked with Rabiot again. Our biggest transfer should be a centre midfielder...

After that, addressing that right flank to give us an actual threat/balance and this Everton team go to another level.

We knew last season what the problem was, it was the midfield.
They contribute very little in terms of goals, assists, dribbling or tackling.
Hence him signing Doucoure, JR and Allan.
When 2 out of those 3 are missing as they have been for the majority of the season, we are back to playing with the same pile of garbage we had last season.
Gomes, Bernard, Iwobi aren’t going to get any better. Davies has improved a bit, but let’s be honest last season he was embarrassing.
Gylfi is the only one who contributes anything in terms of attacking and he’s not going to improve much as this stage of his career.
We are simply hampered with garbage footballers, brought in for expensive fees on wages which are way over what they are actually worth.
Until they are gone nothings going to improve much.

 

[Shibbywiggles]

I grew up watching crap Everton teams but they always had
two players putting a foot in in the midfield and running their socks off so the players with (at that time limited) ability could do their thing.

If we were ever able to play Doucoure, Davies, Allan with James in the hole behind Richarlison and DCL we would be a really good team!

Those three in midfield are a great combination of dynamism from Doucoure and Allan to an extent and passing from Allan and Davies and all three love a tackle/interception.

 

[Lanolin]

In a remark to it being the same players - you said we've not changed at all.

I think we have improved (including winning second balls) and that's indicative with the results.

As I said in the first post too;

• Doucoure, Allan and Rodriguez improved it ten fold at the start of the season. Doucoure was ran into the ground, Allan was carrying an injury before he eventually missed a big spell and is now looking rusty and Rodriguez is what he is.

The club knew we needed improvement in that area with Doucoure and Allan. They've been unfortunate with injuries there.

More improvement is needed and it's clear Ancelotti knows it's an issue based on his continual comments.

Also don't think you can expect them to turn Gomes, Sigurdsson etc into players who are going to be winning tackles all over. 15 months or not.

I was more complaining about the players to be honest. I don't think running round and making a nuisance of yourself is too much to ask, particularly if you're being asked to do it by a highly respected manager and your team has a chance to finish in the top 4. As I alluded to in a reply in the other thread, I hope some people are reassessing how they treated Silva now. Ancelotti is clearly a much better manager than him, but he got a lot of stick for things that are now being recognised as the players fault.

 

[chicoazul]

Everton aren’t ready to be near the top four at this stage of the season. Only a topsy turvy season and Ancelotti’s ability to eek out tight matches got them there (same as 2004/5 really) and yet I don’t think even Ancelotti was expecting anything like this until next season or beyond. Now that Everton are here though the same bunch not good enoughs will let them down which, for a manager as good as Ancelotti we hope, give him complete clarity on who needs shipping out in summer and replaced. A shame as top four is there this season for Everton if they truly want it.

 

[faddy the blue]

So basically we're stuck in a limbo where we still need to address the same positions since 2017.

For the record, Allan isn't the next Gana. He's OK imo. Has 0 forward passing vision after regaining possession.

 

[chicoazul]

So basically we're stuck in a limbo where we still need to address the same positions since 2017.

For the record, Allan isn't the next Gana. He's OK imo. Has 0 forward passing vision after regaining possession.

Allan plays some really nice balls forward. Something Gueye wasn’t particularly good at.

 

[ToffeeTim]

So basically we're stuck in a limbo where we still need to address the same positions since 2017.

For the record, Allan isn't the next Gana. He's OK imo. Has 0 forward passing vision after regaining possession.

He's a much better passer than Gueye, but much worse at winning the ball back and at positional discipline. They are pretty different types of midfielder for me.

 

[Papa Shango]

Every goal we concede seems to come from roughly the same place (edge of the box), we really need to start closing teams down there. Wood for the first had all the time in the world to place his shot perfectly as no real pressure came in.

 

[degsy]

I don’t get why we are literally the only team who:

1. Are so placid and apathetic to winning the second ball that we seem happy to concede them

2. Have absolutely no concept of the pressing game that’s been around for years now

Doesn’t matter who the manager is, these are just a constant

If the players can't or won't be arsed, Ancelotti can come up with all the formations and game plans he wants.
But it's no use if the mental attitude is - sod this chasing and running for a game of soldiers...its not as if they start off running and blow for tugs later.

What seems to happen sometimes Ancelotti gets the starting 11 wrong...it can happen...And the players don't turn up.

 

[Papa Shango]

Allan plays some really nice balls forward. Something Gueye wasn’t particularly good at.

Gueye did it every once in a while, normally though h would just knit everything together by playing it simple and then offering himself for a return pass. We really miss that.