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Sir Landon Of Donovan

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steveojcc said:
The problem i have is no matter how many trophies he wins in the US in quite frankly an average league and then with the US mens team who only real opponent is Mexico in CONCACAF he has still never really proven it on a bigger stage.
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He has scored five world cup goals, like.

Surely the main problem with the argument that the MLS is an awful league is that most of the american national team that has reached the knock out stages of 3 of the last 5 world cups and one quarter final were based there.

They've beaten and out performed teams who are staffed with players exclusively from the top leagues so they can't be that bad.
 
Artetafan said:
Won 5 american leagues, 3 american cups and 3 north american international championships.

I realise that it's fashionable these days to say it's more amibitious to finish 5th with spurs or 6th with everton than to actually win trophies in your own country, but it's not an opinion I share.

Does my head in that great clubs like red star belgrade and steaua bucharest and dinamo tbilisi and even ajax or celtic, lose their league winning players who think it's more ambitious to player lower league football in england or italy rather than staying put and winning trophies.

You take it to the logical conclusion and everybody would be playing their football in germany. Because it's somehow more ambitious to play for st pauli in the bundesliga 2 than win the league in a slightly less tough league like england.

It was alright for bobby moore and bobby charlton to remain in england whilst the best football was being played in italy and spain or for pele and garrincha to stay in brazil rather than try european football. It made inter league comps truly competitive because a team from scotland or the netherlands could contain the best talent of that country.

This mocking and devaluing of all domestic trophies apart from the spanish, italian, german and english leagues is what has ruined grass roots football across the globe. Go to sweden or albania or serbia and all the football fans are watching prem football on the tvs while the grounds are empty and the football clubs only exist as youth systems for the big leagues.

The fact that the brightest star of american football has stayed in america and done his bit in increasing the quality and the brand of his league, is something to be applauded. That aim, to put MLS on the map, is far more ambitious than simply trying to nail down a starting spot at the 6th best team in england or playing week in week out for stoke or bolton.
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What you are complaining about is ineventable so long as professional athletes world wide see incomes (both salary and endorcements) increase at ever increasing higher rates. Over time, it was never viable that a large number of leagues would maintain a somewhat even standing in world football. The cream will rise to the top, and talent (and the money that attracts them) will settle into fewer and fewer leagues. Right now, it seems to have settled into 4, and the amount of talent and money made available to football means that it will probably stay this way for a while.

The next evolution, sadly, is when 20 or so of the biggest clubs in European football decide to form a superleague (like a full time champions league). If the money will support this, this is where we are all headed.

As far as LD, I think it has been simple with him. He wants to live in the US (SoCal in particular). This is what makes him confortable and happy. This has been more important to him than living full time in England or elsewhere. I don't think "putting MLS on the map" has had anything to do with it, even if he pays lip service to it.
 
Artetafan said:
Won 5 american leagues, 3 american cups and 3 north american international championships.

I realise that it's fashionable these days to say it's more amibitious to finish 5th with spurs or 6th with everton than to actually win trophies in your own country, but it's not an opinion I share.

Does my head in that great clubs like red star belgrade and steaua bucharest and dinamo tbilisi and even ajax or celtic, lose their league winning players who think it's more ambitious to player lower league football in england or italy rather than staying put and winning trophies.

You take it to the logical conclusion and everybody would be playing their football in germany. Because it's somehow more ambitious to play for st pauli in the bundesliga 2 than win the league in a slightly less tough league like england.

It was alright for bobby moore and bobby charlton to remain in england whilst the best football was being played in italy and spain or for pele and garrincha to stay in brazil rather than try european football. It made inter league comps truly competitive because a team from scotland or the netherlands could contain the best talent of that country.

This mocking and devaluing of all domestic trophies apart from the spanish, italian, german and english leagues is what has ruined grass roots football across the globe. Go to sweden or albania or serbia and all the football fans are watching prem football on the tvs while the grounds are empty and the football clubs only exist as youth systems for the big leagues.

The fact that the brightest star of american football has stayed in america and done his bit in increasing the quality and the brand of his league, is something to be applauded. That aim, to put MLS on the map, is far more ambitious than simply trying to nail down a starting spot at the 6th best team in england or playing week in week out for stoke or bolton.
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Fantastic AF. Exactly my thoughts. What Donovan has done for the sport in his own country makes me admire him more rather than less, as it appears it has done for some here
 
Artetafan said:
The fact that the brightest star of american football has stayed in america and done his bit in increasing the quality and the brand of his league, is something to be applauded. That aim, to put MLS on the map, is far more ambitious than simply trying to nail down a starting spot at the 6th best team in england or playing week in week out for stoke or bolton.
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Well said
 
SerenityNigh said:
Well said
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As an American, this is BS. We would all mock Tony Parker if he went and played in some French Basketball league. And he wasn't just trying to nail down a starting spot with the 6th best team in England. He was trying to win some silverware in the world's toughest league. There is just no credible way to argue that playing in MLS exhibits more ambition as a player than playing in the EPL. There are other valid reasons to stay in MLS (wants to live in USA, ect). It being MORE ambitious is just crazy talk.
 

EFC NY said:
As an American, this is BS. We would all mock Tony Parker if he went and played in some French Basketball league. And he wasn't just trying to nail down a starting spot with the 6th best team in England. He was trying to win some silverware in the world's toughest league. There is just no credible way to argue that playing in MLS exhibits more ambition as a player than playing in the EPL. There are other valid reasons to stay in MLS (wants to live in USA, ect). It being MORE ambitious is just crazy talk.
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I think you missed the point of the comparison. The argument is that Donovan quit by playing in the MLS; on the contrary, he could easily be a squad player for many mediocre EPL teams. What's the relative value in that?

On Tony Parker, are you French? How do you feel about Ilya Kovalchuk? Parker to Donovan isn't a fair comparison; there are no other leagues in the world that replicate the NBA. Granted, the MLS is very far down the list of world leagues, but there are a preponderance of good leagues to play soccer/football. There are several good Euro basketball leagues, but none of these are comparable in the least to the NBA.
 
Donovan is still a fast and intelligent footballer and I would still love to sign him permanently. Fingers crossed he doesn't renew his contract with LA and signs like an 18 month deal with us.
 
SerenityNigh said:
I think you missed the point of the comparison. The argument is that Donovan quit by playing in the MLS; on the contrary, he could easily be a squad player for many mediocre EPL teams. What's the relative value in that?

On Tony Parker, are you French? How do you feel about Ilya Kovalchuk? Parker to Donovan isn't a fair comparison; there are no other leagues in the world that replicate the NBA. Granted, the MLS is very far down the list of world leagues, but there are a preponderance of good leagues to play soccer/football. There are several good Euro basketball leagues, but none of these are comparable in the least to the NBA.
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Donovan would be a regular starter for the majority of the EPL.

Your comparison of leagues in your second paragraph doesn't make any sense. You contradict yourself. Read what you wrote and tell me that you are making a cogent point after the query about Kovalchuk. I think you mis-typed something somewhere.

My point merely mocked your statement that he was MORE AMBITIOUS when he choose MLS. That is all I did. Similarly, it would be insane to say that Kovalchuk is more ambitious in going to KHL. He can play wherever he wants to. But to say that he is more ambitious when he plays in the KHL vs the NHL is insane.

I have no problem with LD is he wants/wanted to play in MLS. Thats his right. But don't spin it that he is showing more ambition in doing so. That is, like I said, crazy.
 

EFC NY said:
Donovan would be a regular starter for the majority of the EPL.

Your comparison of leagues in your second paragraph doesn't make any sense. You contradict yourself. Read what you wrote and tell me that you are making a cogent point after the query about Kovalchuk. I think you mis-typed something somewhere.

My point merely mocked your statement that he was MORE AMBITIOUS when he choose MLS. That is all I did. Similarly, it would be insane to say that Kovalchuk is more ambitious in going to KHL. He can play wherever he wants to. But to say that he is more ambitious when he plays in the KHL vs the NHL is insane.

I have no problem with LD is he wants/wanted to play in MLS. Thats his right. But don't spin it that he is showing more ambition in doing so. That is, like I said, crazy.
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Surely this depends upon what his ambitions are.
 
EFC NY said:
Donovan would be a regular starter for the majority of the EPL
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Exactly this. That's great ambition for Stu Holden, Brek Shea, Geoff Cameron... Maybe also Omar Gonzalez, Graham Zusi... who else?

Tell me why Donovan joining an EPL team is ambitious? He may not be a world-beater in absolute terms, but he's his nation's leading international scorer by a large margin. If you tell me his joining a major team to chase the Champions League, I'll agree that's ambitious. That's not the argument made by the previous commenter. Instead, the argument was that joining a mid-table EPL team shows no general ambition, but instead investing in the development of the MLS is much more ambitious. I agree with that argument.

The point on Tony Parker and the NBA is opportunity cost. EPL may be the best league, but there's also Serie A (is Michael Bradley not ambitious?), La Liga, and Bundesliga... where do I stop? An ambitious footballer has many choices, and the difference between one choice and the next is often very small. In basketball terms, there is the NBA. There are a lot of good Euro leagues, but none of these are even a reasonable comparison to the NBA. Parker can choose whatever he wishes, but if he wanted to prove his ambition, he had only one choice.

You make a unilateral comparison between Parker and Donovan, but it doesn't fit. What does Parker have to prove? Likewise with Kovalchuk? It's not "more ambitious" for these guys to be a squad player for a middling team. If these guys leave to play in a league in their home country, that's "less ambitious?"

Your argument has teeth, but lacks sense. It makes sense for a younger player to prove his quality at the top stage. It made sense for Klinsmann to push Dempsey to reach for more in the EPL. But it's not "more ambitious" for Donovan to play for a middling EPL team.

Maybe we can agree to disagree, but just remember that you're wrong.
 

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