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Youth set-up and academy players. Probably the only disappointing area under Ronald Koeman, recruitment has been good, but at the cost of playing our own academy players. The academy teams themselves have not been performing so well either, certainly heard rumblings that Ronald Koeman was not so interested in that aspect, no-where near as much as past managers. Given youth development and giving a pathway into the first team is one of Southampton’s strategies, this aspect has to go down as a failure (probably the worst we have done in the last 7 years in this aspect).

This is the biggest thing putting me off appointing Koeman; I watched our U21's vs Southampton last season as they aired it live on their YouTube page and I was very shocked at how poor the Saints players were when we'd been seeing some fantastic players coming through. They're kind of a non-entity in the U21 league and granted this could just be that the talent isn't there but if it seems not much emphasis is placed there anymore that would also make sense.

Last couple of years our academy has come on leaps and bounds and I'd hate it if the pathway to the first team was blocked because a manager would rather buy than test his own. I mean it's understandable because managers are under pressure immediately to perform and perhaps can't risk kids but... food for thought.
 
Anyway, it's night time here in Tokyo and I've just got back from a karaoke bar so it's time for....

 
This is the biggest thing putting me off appointing Koeman; I watched our U21's vs Southampton last season as they aired it live on their YouTube page and I was very shocked at how poor the Saints players were when we'd been seeing some fantastic players coming through. They're kind of a non-entity in the U21 league and granted this could just be that the talent isn't there but if it seems not much emphasis is placed there anymore that would also make sense.

Last couple of years our academy has come on leaps and bounds and I'd hate it if the pathway to the first team was blocked because a manager would rather buy than test his own. I mean it's understandable because managers are under pressure immediately to perform and perhaps can't risk kids but... food for thought.

Surely that's much more to do with the academy than Koeman though mate?
 
Where else can we magic a manager from apart from another club? Of course there's collateral damage but we can console ourselves that if it upsets another club's fans we might be doing something right.
 
Hi Toffees,

I joined so I could read what the latest information is on our current manager, as there seems to be more news on your site about what is supposedly (not 100% convinced yet) happening than reported anywhere else. Anyway, in reply to the OP:

The Koeman brothers (Ronald and Erwin) have been good appointments for us, just what we needed after losing Poch, our first team coach, fitness coach and head of recruitment to Spurs, a lot of our first team players to Liverpool and one of our main scouts to Man U (morale was understandably low). Yes we vented online when that happened too (who wouldn’t). On the plus side, we seem to be getting used to having players, managers and staff taken by the ‘bigger’ teams and getting told that we are a small team from a small city and we should know our place (they all said it too after taking them) and yes we still react, it is natural, but less so than we used to (although as you will see when reading our main forum, saints web, we still like to vent and people do lose perspective for a short time – although the comment in relation to those that died, I cannot and will not defend).
I guess as long as we keep coming back stronger (within the finance targets set by our owner, Katharina Liebherr - she wants us to grow and be able to stand on our own two feet financially) then it is all good.

So, back to the Koeman brothers (and mainly Ronald). His laid back attitude and what appeared to be a dry sense of humour was just what we needed, he is someone who comes across as honest and answers questions truthfully (does not do politics), which is a nice change. He seemed happy with the Saints as well, also for the first time in his career as a manager he was working with his brother Erwin (he bought him in as the first team coach at Southampton). Ronald seems to have a good tactical mind and can respond to what he sees on the pitch (both what his team does and the opposition), making the correct changes (for your information if he does join you he will most likely bring his fitness coach as well).

His teams seem set up to be able to change formations quite easily, which obviously helps the tactical changes. He also seems to learn from his mistakes on team set-ups (and is willing to hold his hands up that he got it wrong). One caveat, there has been a suspicion (at least by me) that Erwin has helped a lot with that (I remember reading, when he first joined us, that his brother Erwin was considered the better of the two at tactics, in the Eredivise). With regards to playing styles, we have played good attacking (easy on the eye) football. Not as fast paced as we were when under Pochettino (nor do we close down as much in the opponents half), but that has also meant the team did not tire out at the end of the season, as Pochettino’s teams do (the players are knackered). We had a problem defensively for a while, partly due to our no.1 keeper being off injured, partly due to some people not seeming bothered in some games (that may help explain some of the points in relation to Wanyama on earlier posts). He switched us to 3 CBs , which did the job (along with some other aspects like Forster returning).

It is worth pointing out we also seemed to have a morale issue, players not wanting to perform for a while this season (mid season), some of the players seemed unhappy with Koeman, it may be nothing to do with Koeman though (but I am not certain). Mane, Tadic, Wanyama and Pelle all seemed upset at points this season, in relation to their playing, so I would put a small question mark (very small), in relation to man management on some of our ‘bigger names’. During that period, we played 10 games, lost 8, won 1, drew 1 (which included losing 6-1 at home to Liverpool). Given we finished 3 points behind 4th place, you can see what that run cost us. However, we had an outstanding end to the season after Christmas, so perhaps it balances out.

With regards to recruitment, there seems to have been some tie up between out scouting, the black box, the DoF and Koeman, but who takes the most credit I am not sure. Most of the players we have got since he has been in charge have worked out well, a few loans signings last season were not so good, Juanmi was a bit of punt that did not work out either. We have certainly been more active in recruiting from the Eredivise, which is hardly surprising and would certainly have been influenced by the Koeman brothers. But we did have everything in place before they joined, scouting system, youth set up, training, etc.

Youth set-up and academy players. Probably the only disappointing area under Ronald Koeman, recruitment has been good, but at the cost of playing our own academy players. The academy teams themselves have not been performing so well either, certainly heard rumblings that Ronald Koeman was not so interested in that aspect, no-where near as much as past managers. Given youth development and giving a pathway into the first team is one of Southampton’s strategies, this aspect has to go down as a failure (probably the worst we have done in the last 7 years in this aspect).

Short point on training - from what I have seen both brothers get involved, I have had the feeling that Erwin is the one who grafts more in the training (again my perception maybe wrong here). I guess what I am getting at is, you probably want to recruit both brothers (both managers in their own right), not sure if that is what has been agreed / discussed (but no one knows what has been discussed yet).

Sorry for the long post, guess I had a lot to say. For your Information I quite like Everton, there are a few of their fans down here and I have always got on well with them, some good banter and often a common feeling of struggling against a system that seemed stacked against us and in favour of the teams with rich owners, I guess the trick is not to forget that struggle when a new rich owner comes in, the same goes for us though. Regardless of what happens with managers, I wish you well and good luck, except when you play us! Anyway, back to supporting my club, regardless of the latest troubles and I hope it does not cause further arthritis and pain to my working class, 6 fingered, 7 toed bones, else my mother sister will put me out in the dogging house again until I stop crying ;) FYI (as this question was addressed to another Saints supporter who replied), I only support (and have only ever supported) one team, the team from my home city where I was born, went to school and Uni in and still live in. Southampton FC.

Cheers for the post!

Welcome to the forum.

For what it's worth, I like Saints. Said right from when we sacked Martinez that, ideally, Koeman would be my first choice. Luckily enough we may well get him.
 

Two weeks ago, Van Dijk signed a new five year deal at Southampton. He's not going anywhere I would have thought. Players don't just move around clubs purely because of a manager. When Vin Dijk signed that new deal he knew that Koeman would probably be going at least in June 2017 so massively unlikely that he (Van Dijk) would move because Koeman is coming to us. If (and that's a big if), Koeman does come to us then the chances of Stones staying increases massively.

Yeah I think it's highly unlikely we'll get him

I'm not campaigning for it either btw

We had our chance and missed it last season
 
Surely that's much more to do with the academy than Koeman though mate?

I would say it's a combination; obviously not sure how Saints are setup but our manager had a very close link to the academy with what was going on, defining pathways, watching all the games. If you know the first team manager is interested it should in theory push you even harder to stand out. If you're in the academy and you think "I could score 20 goals this season but he'll just go out and buy someone" would you honestly try as hard to impress?
 
I would say it's a combination; obviously not sure how Saints are setup but our manager had a very close link to the academy with what was going on, defining pathways, watching all the games. If you know the first team manager is interested it should in theory push you even harder to stand out. If you're in the academy and you think "I could score 20 goals this season but he'll just go out and buy someone" would you honestly try as hard to impress?

Yeh I get the point.

But in fairness Koeman, using that as an example, only bought two forwards. Pelle to replace Lambert and Long to replace the injured Rodriguez.

He is willing to give youngsters a chance if they work hard and are good enough. We have nothing to worry about in that regard I'm sure of it.
 
Yeh I get the point.

But in fairness Koeman, using that as an example, only bought two forwards. Pelle to replace Lambert and Long to replace the injured Rodriguez.

He is willing to give youngsters a chance if they work hard and are good enough. We have nothing to worry about in that regard I'm sure of it.

Well the striker part was just an example I'm just going off what the Saints poster had said along with what a lot of others on their forums have said. It's easy enough to presume the way we do things is universal when it likely isn't.
 
I would say it's a combination; obviously not sure how Saints are setup but our manager had a very close link to the academy with what was going on, defining pathways, watching all the games. If you know the first team manager is interested it should in theory push you even harder to stand out. If you're in the academy and you think "I could score 20 goals this season but he'll just go out and buy someone" would you honestly try as hard to impress?

Another Saints fan. Not on a wind up.

The reason our academy teams "seem" to underperform is because a lot of our academy play at the age group above. Our under 16s end up playing for the U18s and so forth because of the pathway. If you check the ages of the players in these games you'll see this.

There was an article the other day about Rangers (I think) saying that they were not worried about copying our system because they understood what we were doing. We have a lot of the U21 age range out on loan rather than playing for our U21s.

Good luck to you guys and hopefully we'll have a manager that pushes some of our youngsters on a bit more than 2 minutes and the end of a match here and there just to pretend he is following policy.
 

Well the striker part was just an example I'm just going off what the Saints poster had said along with what a lot of others on their forums have said. It's easy enough to presume the way we do things is universal when it likely isn't.

true.

but who did you want instead?

Emery's track record for youth is pretty dismal. FDB is known to be very stubborn etc etc.

It's all about a balance. I don't get this obsession with youth players, it's ridiculous.

We've got a few youngsters who are all under 23 and key to our side (not counting Rom). They need to be the focus and they will be in the first team from the start of the season.

The up and coming academy players will get their chance. Fans also like to view their academy players as being better than they are but, for what it's worth, as good as Saints' academy is, Chambers and Ward-Prowse are the only ones of this generation to have fully made the step up. Koeman never worked with one, and the other is one of the first names on the teamsheet for them...

If they are good enough, they will play. Simple.
 
Another Saints fan. Not on a wind up.

The reason our academy teams "seem" to underperform is because a lot of our academy play at the age group above. Our under 16s end up playing for the U18s and so forth because of the pathway. If you check the ages of the players in these games you'll see this.

There was an article the other day about Rangers (I think) saying that they were not worried about copying our system because they understood what we were doing. We have a lot of the U21 age range out on loan rather than playing for our U21s.

Good luck to you guys and hopefully we'll have a manager that pushes some of our youngsters on a bit more than 2 minutes and the end of a match here and there just to pretend he is following policy.

Oh yeh I know they were young; likewise with ours. I just questions why people like Jack Stephens (loan), Josh Sims, Harrison Reed, James Hesketh seem to have just stalled massively compared to the hype a year or so ago with them.
 
I would have preferred Emery or FDB over Koeman. I don't want us throwing 7m at a coach who is no Mourinho or Klopp. Getting Southampton in the top half is a massive achievement and reality is going to bite hard for them once he leaves. I just don't see how he could be that much of a step up from FDB who clearly wants to come and likes developing players. I think he's got a crafty agent though who won't shut his mouth to the press or the odd wink. rather have FDB for half the wages.
 
There was an article the other day about Rangers (I think) saying that they were not worried about copying our system because they understood what we were doing. We have a lot of the U21 age range out on loan rather than playing for our U21s.

Good luck to you guys and hopefully we'll have a manager that pushes some of our youngsters on a bit more than 2 minutes and the end of a match here and there just to pretend he is following policy.

Haha you were doing so well
 
true.

but who did you want instead?

Emery's track record for youth is pretty dismal. FDB is known to be very stubborn etc etc.

It's all about a balance. I don't get this obsession with youth players, it's ridiculous.

We've got a few youngsters who are all under 23 and key to our side (not counting Rom). They need to be the focus and they will be in the first team from the start of the season.

The up and coming academy players will get their chance. Fans also like to view their academy players as being better than they are but, for what it's worth, as good as Saints' academy is, Chambers and Ward-Prowse are the only ones of this generation to have fully made the step up. Koeman never worked with one, and the other is one of the first names on the teamsheet for them...

If they are good enough, they will play. Simple.

To be fair I don't know why manager I'd prefer in that sense - who knows what any of them would do with it. It's the only reason I tolerated Martinez really.

It's not an obsession with youth players it's wanting Everton to have a solid network through the age groups so that when we lose players we have free and ready made replacement hungry and waiting. What's the point in always spending money to replace the Osman's and Kone's of this world? I'm slightly bias as I actually prefer watching and researching our academy than I do the first team but I think it's something all fans should consider - not just our club. I don't count Barkley/Stones/Del etc. as "youngsters" because they have a lot of games under their belts for club and country; they're established professionals. The new manager isn't going to waver on playing them, they're as vital as a 30-year old might be.

Edit: Also you have to remember Shaw, Bale, Walcott, Oxlade-Chamberlain etc. have come through their academy as well as Targett who currently plays for them and England U21's.
 

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