Steve Walsh - no longer our Director of Football

[foxedup]

Did he have as many " nice " foreign holidays when he was with you though ?

Since he`s been with us, he`s seems to have been keeping Ambre Solaire in business, but not finding us any players.

If you mean scouting trips, yes plenty. Players are tracked and watched over years, if he hadn't been out and about personally we'd never have got Mahrez or Kante.

 

[Lanolin]

What exactly have I accused others of? I believe I asked a question as to whether the board etc had ever spelt out what his role was?


I'm almost certain that if we'd got rid of Pearson, Walsh, Drinkwater, Vardy and friends after disappointing spells, or first seasons, we wouldn't have won the league. Sure I can't prove it, but our success was built on many things.... chucking large amounts of that bin is unlikely to have lead to anything as good as or better than what we did as it was a freak a one off. Pretty much stands to reason if you write off Vardy after one bad season when he signs and sell him before he reaches his potential, you aren't going to have benefited from him. Don't know many other players who cost £1m who've done what he has... so how unlikely is is that we'd have found another?

As for no idea of relationships between the teams, or whether Steve Walsh is a nice bloke. There are multiple books written about the club that go into depth about the relationships. This is all backed up by either my own first hand experience of meeting people, or what's been said by people on the inside.


I've read your forum for the last couple of years, the vast majority seemed to be screaming for big names and instant success. The fact most look to be screaming for your manager to be sacked after a handful of games, leads me to believe the patience you were once prepared to show people no longer exists because a bit of cash as raised expectations.

Yes you've spent that on sigurdsson, but I'm sorry one £45m player is unlikely to push you into top four. Yes you spent a fair amount of money, but not enough to propel you much further forward than you had already been. The people above you are spending more than that on decent full backs and £30m more than that on good centre halves.




I think you do fall into a different category to most clubs, spending good money and expecting quick success... but not enough money to actually push on much further than you already were. There aren't many clubs finding themselves in that situation, it's quite unique for you as the 6 above you are light years away in terms of spend over the last decade.

Whilst some on here also complain about no cheap rough diamonds being found. You're board hired a man known for putting together a winning team on a shoe string, with years to build... and then people want quick success and big money signings.

Outside looking in, it seemed like not many could agree on whether it's Leicester type success you're going for, built over nearly 7/8 years, with plenty of ups and downs. Or Chelsea type success, huge investment and quick wins. You fall somewhere in between and that comes across in the mixed messages I read on here.

Anyway... I'll leave it there. If you want to be attacking about things, it's really not worth the discussion nothing I say will be right in your eyes. I wish I had more time to better answer your questions but work calls.

That's a really, really, strange response. Where have I been attacking? I apologise if you found the word 'accuse' offensive but i'm not sure what else in my post you could possibly see as being an 'attack'? If you want me to attack though, who am I to disappoint?

You can be as 'almost certain' as you want that you wouldn't have been successful without Walsh, but someone else can be 'almost certain' that Walsh won't sign us the players we need, because over the past 18 months he hasn't. The only point I was making there is that you're saying we can't guess what Walsh's job is, but you can guess what would have happened had you sacked him. You're using 2 different metrics when 1 would suffice.

Walsh and Koeman, and now Allardyce, have always maintained that they have a good relationship. They are on record as saying that they make joint judgements on players. And yet you're suggesting they don't. Again, you're happy to believe the stories you like, but not use the exact same criteria when it doesn't fit with your opinion. Strange. I might Kevin Spacey once and thought he came across really well, but apparently he's not. Who knew.

The fact that most people want our manager sacked is much more to do with very few wanting him in the first place, rather than us not having patience. We've got a striker who has barely scored all season and yet gets full support at every game, another who can hardly put one foot in front of the other without looking ungainly but he's lauded as a hero. To suggest we have no patience because fans who haven't seen us win a trophy for 23 years are moaning on a forum is a bit of a stretch.

Who said anything about pushing into the top 4? You've just made up a straw man argument there. The discussion was about Steve Walsh and whether he's doing a good job, not about whether we could or should finish top 4. I'm talking about things like style of play, glaring holes in the squad which haven't been addressed, large amounts of money being spent on players who don't appear to improve us much. I didn't expect us to be in or around the top 4 and haven't suggested anything of the sort. I just expected a lot better than what I'm seeing at the moment.

 

[James1878]

If you mean scouting trips, yes plenty. Players are tracked and watched over years, if he hadn't been out and about personally we'd never have got Mahrez or Kante.

Honest question. Do you think Claude Puel would want him though? To come back and be your chief scout that is.

Would Walsh even want it? Now that he is making a good living doing nothing or little or nothing.

 

[tadao]

Has it been spelt out to you, what his role was / is or are people just guessing that he's meant to be implementing some grand plan. We have a DOF, but he has no say in style whatsoever. He's no more than a pen pusher. So, different DOF's will be assigned different roles by different owners.

If you get rid of Walsh, then I'll happily take him back. People calling him a fraud is funny, when he built a team that won the top three leagues for a grand total of about £30m.

Unfortunately I think you've been stuck between two different things. A team wanting to spend money to progress, whilst also buying some cheap hidden gems and not really doing either. You've not spent enough to get the ready made best and wouldn't give rough diamonds time to develop if you had them.

If we'd sacked Pearson and Walsh at the first sign of a bad run or signings not hitting the ground running instantly, we wouldn't have had success. It took time for the players to develop into what they are now. We also had a manager and a assistant manager / chief scout who had total belief in each other and had trust.

Seems to me Koeman had different ideas and tried to force his will, a lot of the players you've signed and overloading in certain positions screams of someone else sticking their oar in, compared to what I experienced of his work in all his time here.

We always had a balanced squad, with different types of players all complimenting each other. Not 12 no.10's and no strikers.

I see the discussion has moved on a bit since this post!
I share a fair degree of the sentiments expressed in replies made to you but, will add mine to them.
You say that your DoF is a 'pen pusher', we might liken that our 'Contract Dave', who last time I looked was club secretary (I think).
My opinion, about how the DoF should work, is what you replied to. It's fairly obvious that this hasn't been the role Walsh has been given. If he had then he's failed miserably because as you say, he hasn't stood his ground and dismissed interference from others. He is a scout and should be utilised as such, because as I've already said, the title of DoF imo, means an all encompassing role throughout the club.
One final point, I'm not sure you're talking about the right club when suggesting younger players aren't nurtured here?
I'll let you get on with all the replying you seem to have on your hands.

 

[ToffeeTim]

SACK

 

[catcherintherye]

What exactly have I accused others of? I believe I asked a question as to whether the board etc had ever spelt out what his role was?


I'm almost certain that if we'd got rid of Pearson, Walsh, Drinkwater, Vardy and friends after disappointing spells, or first seasons, we wouldn't have won the league. Sure I can't prove it, but our success was built on many things.... chucking large amounts of that bin is unlikely to have lead to anything as good as or better than what we did as it was a freak a one off. Pretty much stands to reason if you write off Vardy after one bad season when he signs and sell him before he reaches his potential, you aren't going to have benefited from him. Don't know many other players who cost £1m who've done what he has... so how unlikely is is that we'd have found another?

As for no idea of relationships between the teams, or whether Steve Walsh is a nice bloke. There are multiple books written about the club that go into depth about the relationships. This is all backed up by either my own first hand experience of meeting people, or what's been said by people on the inside.


I've read your forum for the last couple of years, the vast majority seemed to be screaming for big names and instant success. The fact most look to be screaming for your manager to be sacked after a handful of games, leads me to believe the patience you were once prepared to show people no longer exists because a bit of cash as raised expectations.

Yes you've spent that on sigurdsson, but I'm sorry one £45m player is unlikely to push you into top four. Yes you spent a fair amount of money, but not enough to propel you much further forward than you had already been. The people above you are spending more than that on decent full backs and £30m more than that on good centre halves.




I think you do fall into a different category to most clubs, spending good money and expecting quick success... but not enough money to actually push on much further than you already were. There aren't many clubs finding themselves in that situation, it's quite unique for you as the 6 above you are light years away in terms of spend over the last decade.

Whilst some on here also complain about no cheap rough diamonds being found. You're board hired a man known for putting together a winning team on a shoe string, with years to build... and then people want quick success and big money signings.

Outside looking in, it seemed like not many could agree on whether it's Leicester type success you're going for, built over nearly 7/8 years, with plenty of ups and downs. Or Chelsea type success, huge investment and quick wins. You fall somewhere in between and that comes across in the mixed messages I read on here.

Anyway... I'll leave it there. If you want to be attacking about things, it's really not worth the discussion nothing I say will be right in your eyes. I wish I had more time to better answer your questions but work calls.

You're a welcome member of the forum mate who's input is appreciated. You've raised a fair few important points there that should be debated, though I haven't got time to do it tonight, I'll try and come back tomorrow.

 

[People75]

SACK ASAP

 

[diggerdestroyer]

Came into the job with some kind of rep. That has vanished. Was it brought up at the agm what this lad actually does? What his job description is? What he is responsible for?

 

[Brisan123]

Has it been spelt out to you, what his role was / is or are people just guessing that he's meant to be implementing some grand plan. We have a DOF, but he has no say in style whatsoever. He's no more than a pen pusher. So, different DOF's will be assigned different roles by different owners.

If you get rid of Walsh, then I'll happily take him back. People calling him a fraud is funny, when he built a team that won the top three leagues for a grand total of about £30m.

Unfortunately I think you've been stuck between two different things. A team wanting to spend money to progress, whilst also buying some cheap hidden gems and not really doing either. You've not spent enough to get the ready made best and wouldn't give rough diamonds time to develop if you had them.

If we'd sacked Pearson and Walsh at the first sign of a bad run or signings not hitting the ground running instantly, we wouldn't have had success. It took time for the players to develop into what they are now. We also had a manager and a assistant manager / chief scout who had total belief in each other and had trust.

Seems to me Koeman had different ideas and tried to force his will, a lot of the players you've signed and overloading in certain positions screams of someone else sticking their oar in, compared to what I experienced of his work in all his time here.

We always had a balanced squad, with different types of players all complimenting each other. Not 12 no.10's and no strikers.

Exactly this
People complain about Walsh and the players he has /hasn’t signed
Truth is no one on here knows his exact role and what he’s allowed to do and not do.
If anyone thinks that Steve Walsh doesn’t realise that we need a LB and has identified 3 or 4 targets then they are seriously deluded
For various reasons we have not signed one but no one know those reasons.
Until we know the parameters of Walsh’s job , the players he’s signed , the power and control he has, then we can’t judge him
The stuff about both him and the manager signing off on players could be all just PR , we don’t know the facts because his role has never been outlined to the fans

 

[jinkyali]

On the face of it, he is utterly failing in his role.

 

[jinkyali]

Exactly this
People complain about Walsh and the players he has /hasn’t signed
Truth is no one on here knows his exact role and what he’s allowed to do and not do.
If anyone thinks that Steve Walsh doesn’t realise that we need a LB and has identified 3 or 4 targets then they are seriously deluded
For various reasons we have not signed one but no one know those reasons.
Until we know the parameters of Walsh’s job , the players he’s signed , the power and control he has, then we can’t judge him
The stuff about both him and the manager signing off on players could be all just PR , we don’t know the facts because his role has never been outlined to the fans

I would like to believe you but we needed a striker and we never got one. Gross incompetence.

 

[Sir Alan]

Time to make it known we aren’t stupid and he needs to go the clown

 

[Brisan123]

I would like to believe you but we needed a striker and we never got one. Gross incompetence.

It was but by who
Walsh for not identifying one or two ?
Koeman for not agreeing to the choices ?
The board for sanctioning the fee ?
We will never know

 

[catcherintherye]

What exactly have I accused others of? I believe I asked a question as to whether the board etc had ever spelt out what his role was?


I'm almost certain that if we'd got rid of Pearson, Walsh, Drinkwater, Vardy and friends after disappointing spells, or first seasons, we wouldn't have won the league. Sure I can't prove it, but our success was built on many things.... chucking large amounts of that bin is unlikely to have lead to anything as good as or better than what we did as it was a freak a one off. Pretty much stands to reason if you write off Vardy after one bad season when he signs and sell him before he reaches his potential, you aren't going to have benefited from him. Don't know many other players who cost £1m who've done what he has... so how unlikely is is that we'd have found another?

As for no idea of relationships between the teams, or whether Steve Walsh is a nice bloke. There are multiple books written about the club that go into depth about the relationships. This is all backed up by either my own first hand experience of meeting people, or what's been said by people on the inside.


I've read your forum for the last couple of years, the vast majority seemed to be screaming for big names and instant success. The fact most look to be screaming for your manager to be sacked after a handful of games, leads me to believe the patience you were once prepared to show people no longer exists because a bit of cash as raised expectations.

Yes you've spent that on sigurdsson, but I'm sorry one £45m player is unlikely to push you into top four. Yes you spent a fair amount of money, but not enough to propel you much further forward than you had already been. The people above you are spending more than that on decent full backs and £30m more than that on good centre halves.




I think you do fall into a different category to most clubs, spending good money and expecting quick success... but not enough money to actually push on much further than you already were. There aren't many clubs finding themselves in that situation, it's quite unique for you as the 6 above you are light years away in terms of spend over the last decade.

Whilst some on here also complain about no cheap rough diamonds being found. You're board hired a man known for putting together a winning team on a shoe string, with years to build... and then people want quick success and big money signings.

Outside looking in, it seemed like not many could agree on whether it's Leicester type success you're going for, built over nearly 7/8 years, with plenty of ups and downs. Or Chelsea type success, huge investment and quick wins. You fall somewhere in between and that comes across in the mixed messages I read on here.

Anyway... I'll leave it there. If you want to be attacking about things, it's really not worth the discussion nothing I say will be right in your eyes. I wish I had more time to better answer your questions but work calls.

You’re contributions are a worthwhile and interesting part of a good debate.

The points you make that are interesting seem to be that you need to;
1) Match up a manager that fits the role your DOF plays
2) Explain this message/approach clearly to fans so they are on board
3) Give it time to work.

The reality is we have done none of those things over the last 2 years, and many of them are long term issues with our board (particularly point 2, where they view fans as inherently problematic and adopt a Pravda style approach to fan liaison). I would also agree that the inability to do any of the above has made Steve Walsh’s role very difficult.

If we take each point- the DOF should be controlling the footballing side of the club and dictating what happens, as well as having a central role in finding managers who suit that. This clearly hasn’t happened, as not only the two managers he’s worked under are radically different, but also the candidates linked were also the same.

There is now very little patience. In truth a brave DOF/board probably give Koeman more time. They believe in the signings and own their decisions and back themselves to get it right.

The issue however I have with Walsh, is even in spite of all of these things he just doesn’t really look like a DOF to me. He looks a fantastic Head Scout/Head of recruitment who has the ability to add value to the business with his ability to locate and recruit players. This is undoubtedly a part of a DOF role but is not the only part.

At Leicester this was the role he was given. He seemed to work on the coaching ground far more and was an Assistant Manager too? It looked like you had a system, of a close knit (but larger) coaching team who were very aware of what they wanted where a clear strategic direction from above wasn’t as necessary. He was very good in this role, but it’s a very different role to the one he’s being asked to perform here.

A lot of it isn’t his fault, I don’t doubt other members of the board take responsibility for closing deals, but any DOF worth his salt would have learnt 18 months ago not to tolerate that, The fact he has seemed to accept it, and slink back to his role at Leicester as a chief scout is very telling. Whats worse is, at least at Leicester they trusted his judgements and closed on them. At Everton, we tend to ignore them, and go and hammer bigger sums on players the manager identifies which compleely undermines his use which of a guy who adds value.

I still feel there’s a role for Walsh, but I just don’t see him as a commercial guy, negotiating deals, identifying managers, allocating budgets, making a strong case as a board member, strategically growing revenue etc. He struggles to fill key positions that need to be filled, never mind doing this creatively to generate funds.

I’m probably in a minority here, which is neither Walsh in or out, but rather Walsh’s role needs to be changed. For me he should e head of recruitment. A new DOF should be brought in (with the profile of Marcel from PSV) who is experienced at taking clubs from a similar position to ours, improving performance and ultimately winning trophies. He took Alkmaar from a similar position in Holland to where Everton/Leicester are and turned them to title winners. He took PSV (a similar stature club in many ways) and gave them domestic and European success. He did so by adopting an aggressive and specific strategy to recruitment and fitting managers around it.

That message then needs to be properly explained to fans, who can at least see what the club is looking to achieve and will mean they are cut a little slack. I’m not sure Walsh would go for that, in many ways it’s a demotion, but in other ways he would be being moved into a role he is comfortable with and excels at.

 

[Sir Alan]

Need the reptile out of the club. He has ruined the squad and brought in his mates to secure himself at the club.