Steven Naismith

[bluestevon]

How is he deluded for thinking he deserves to be in the starting 11? It may surprise people, but players like Naismith get to where they are through hard work and belief in their own ability. Why would a player who has consistently shown that he's good enough to be in and around the first team since Martinez joined and recently scored a hat-trick against the Champions not be entitled to think they may warrant a place in the starting 11?

Not aimed at you now, but some of our fanbase in general because they have no grasp on the reality of the game. They think our team should be filled with 10 outfield classy players from defence to attack with no hardworkers and no players who are in the team to do a job. These people are the same people who then moan at Barkley and Lukaku for being lazy and not getting stuck in. Except when we do have those players who are very effective at what they do like McCarthy and Naismith they get accused of not being productive or skilful enough. These are the same people who moan at any opportunity and brought a poisonous atmosphere to Goodison last season and continue to ruin the match day experience for those who can appreciate that every player has different strengths to their game.

Naismith had a good game on Saturday and contributed a lot for the team. Constantly chasing down their players and retaining possession well mostly. That's what he is in the team to do and if he's not doing that he's scoring hat-tricks against Chelsea or scoring goals against other big sides (Man United away, RS at home, Arsenal at home for example). He's not always at his best but at this moment in time, i'd much prefer to see the grafter Naismith than a player like Mirallas who only plays for himself and has proven himself to be a liability in the 2 minutes he was on for the other day. How many times has Mirallas scored a hat-trick for us against one of the best teams in the country?

McCarthy is a defensive midfielder mate, the major part of his game is about working hard and doing that job, Naimsith is supposedly either an attacking mid or support striker, it is kind of more important that they have a bit of skill to their game rather than be able to run hard.

By the way, since when can a player not both be hardworking and have skill about his game as well? you make it sound like it's either or?

As for Mirallas showing he was a liability, did you actually watch the Chelsea game yourself mate? Naismith within minutes of coming on himself could have been shown a red just as easily as Mirallas for clattering Ivanovic. So trying to paint one as black and the other white is wrong

 

[Thuck ma Baws]

McCarthy is a defensive midfielder mate, the major part of his game is about working hard and doing that job, Naimsith is supposedly either an attacking mid or support striker, it is kind of more important that they have a bit of skill to their game rather than be able to run hard.

By the way, since when can a player not both be hardworking and have skill about his game as well? you make it sound like it's either or?

As for Mirallas showing he was a liability, did you actually watch the Chelsea game yourself mate? Naismith within minutes of coming on himself could have been shown a red just as easily as Mirallas for clattering Ivanovic. So trying to paint one as black and the other white is wrong

Agree with the first part of that. I wish our "flair" players showed as much heart as Naismith does. We'd be untouchable if they did.

Not sure about the last bit though. The Mirallas tackle was a blatant red card. Didn't think there was anything in the Naismith one at all though, would have been a harsh yellow let alone red.

 

[EFC78]

McCarthy is a defensive midfielder mate, the major part of his game is about working hard and doing that job, Naimsith is supposedly either an attacking mid or support striker, it is kind of more important that they have a bit of skill to their game rather than be able to run hard.

By the way, since when can a player not both be hardworking and have skill about his game as well? you make it sound like it's either or?

As for Mirallas showing he was a liability, did you actually watch the Chelsea game yourself mate? Naismith within minutes of coming on himself could have been shown a red just as easily as Mirallas for clattering Ivanovic. So trying to paint one as black and the other white is wrong

But it seems as though some of our fans dismiss any positive attacking strengths Naismith brings to the team by saying he's not a good player. Surely by scoring a hat-trick against the Champions with his head, and both feet undermines that view? I appreciate the main part of his game is that he's a grafter, but he's also shown he's a big game player on several occasions. People make out he should be grateful to be where he is. I disagree entirely. Poor players don't score goals in an Old Firm derby. Poor players don't score goals in the Merseyside derby or score hat-tricks against the Champions. He has more to his game than some give him credit for.

I'm not saying it has to be either or, but a lot of players mainly have one or the other. For example Iniesta and Messi are better at the attacking side of the game. You don't see them grafting non stop and flying in to 50-50's because that's not their game. They may show glimpses of it time to time but that's not what they are in the team to do.

I don't actually think the Mirallas one was worthy of a red. But he's shown on a few occasions that he's a petulant player who only plays for himself. The West Brom penalty incident, the Suarez tackle. Naismith always tries his hardest, even if he's having a poor game and he still kicked the ball in the Ivanovic incident which Mirallas failed to do in his tackle.

 

[Ihaters]

Massively underrated player, he's got a so much more skill than he gets credit for, people will often see what they want based on a pre-existing opinion though.

If Barkley ran past 5 players and delivered a poor cross.. Would be viewed as a magnificent run.
If Naismith ran past 5 players and delivered a poor cross.. Would be viewed as a poor cross.

 

[Ihaters]

But it seems as though some of our fans dismiss any positive attacking strengths Naismith brings to the team by saying he's not a good player. Surely by scoring a hat-trick against the Champions with his head, and both feet undermines that view? I appreciate the main part of his game is that he's a grafter, but he's also shown he's a big game player on several occasions. People make out he should be grateful to be where he is. I disagree entirely. Poor players don't score goals in an Old Firm derby. Poor players don't score goals in the Merseyside derby or score hat-tricks against the Champions. He has more to his game than some give him credit for.

I'm not saying it has to be either or, but a lot of players mainly have one or the other. For example Iniesta and Messi are better at the attacking side of the game. You don't see them grafting non stop and flying in to 50-50's because that's not their game. They may show glimpses of it time to time but that's not what they are in the team to do.

I don't actually think the Mirallas one was worthy of a red. But he's shown on a few occasions that he's a petulant player who only plays for himself. The West Brom penalty incident, the Suarez tackle. Naismith always tries his hardest, even if he's having a poor game and he still kicked the ball in the Ivanovic incident which Mirallas failed to do in his tackle.

Still don't buy that one.. He was the only one playing that day, was almost single handily dragging us through the game and whilst his tail was up and he was on fire wanted to take the pen.. had he scored, would of been well worthy of the goal too... The pen was saved, it happens.

He was having a MOM game before that.

And since when does being a snide against Suarez go in the negative column?

 

[EFC78]

Still don't buy that one.. He was the only one playing that day, was almost single handily dragging us through the game and whilst his tail was up and he was on fire wanted to take the pen.. had he scored, would of been well worthy of the goal too... The pen was saved, it happens.

He was having a MOM game before that.

And since when does being a snide against Suarez go in the negative column?

Don't remember that he was playing as well as you said, but maybe that was Mirallas' usual 1 decent game in 5 that he often has?

If the ref would have done his job properly, Mirallas would have been off, so yes it goes in the negative column for me. Us fans are supposed to want to do things like that, professionals have a job to do on the pitch and petty retaliation isn't acceptable really is it . Especially if it costs the team. Suarez should have been off before that though, but the refs allowing the RS to commit cynical stamps on our players is hardly surprising either.

Anyway, I don't want turn my posts in to an anti-Mirallas agenda because I rate him highly and he has more talent than Naismith will ever have. But I find it disappointing that he often fails to deliver, and people cut him some slack and slaughter a lad who has just won us the game against Chelsea after coming on as a sub.

 

[MikeH72]

Massively underrated player, he's got a so much more skill than he gets credit for, people will often see what they want based on a pre-existing opinion though.

If Barkley ran past 5 players and delivered a poor cross.. Would be viewed as a magnificent run.
If Naismith ran past 5 players and delivered a poor cross.. Would be viewed as a poor cross.

But this has never, ever happened in the history of the universe

 

[bluestevon]

But it seems as though some of our fans dismiss any positive attacking strengths Naismith brings to the team by saying he's not a good player. Surely by scoring a hat-trick against the Champions with his head, and both feet undermines that view? I appreciate the main part of his game is that he's a grafter, but he's also shown he's a big game player on several occasions. People make out he should be grateful to be where he is. I disagree entirely. Poor players don't score goals in an Old Firm derby. Poor players don't score goals in the Merseyside derby or score hat-tricks against the Champions. He has more to his game than some give him credit for.

I'm not saying it has to be either or, but a lot of players mainly have one or the other. For example Iniesta and Messi are better at the attacking side of the game. You don't see them grafting non stop and flying in to 50-50's because that's not their game. They may show glimpses of it time to time but that's not what they are in the team to do.

I don't actually think the Mirallas one was worthy of a red. But he's shown on a few occasions that he's a petulant player who only plays for himself. The West Brom penalty incident, the Suarez tackle. Naismith always tries his hardest, even if he's having a poor game and he still kicked the ball in the Ivanovic incident which Mirallas failed to do in his tackle.

Not saying he is 'poor' mate, but as far as a starter for us if we have ambitions of top 6 then he should just not be anything more than as sub, thrown on to inject energy when we are flat or have tired legs or as a wild-card to try change a flow of a game when needed.

To highlight him he scored 4 in the first 7 last season to get off to a flyer, 3 of those came against very good teams in Arsenal, United and Chelsea, he then proceeded to score 3 in the rest of the season total... Indeed one could point to him going out the starting line up as a massive reason we turned the corner after the low point against stoke - the six games after he was finally dropped from the starting 11 we won 5 and drew 1.

He is all wrong for the system we play, other players game with him 'generally' is dragged down and he stagnates attacks as he just isn't that good in possession for the system we employ.

Yeah their is always exceptions and the Chelsea game is exactly that, an exception to the rule, for every game like that their will be 5-6 others he utterly adds nothing besides a attacking player who runs hard and has a bit of a bite at the opposition.

Do i underrate him, yup i probably do, do others overate him though, most definitely they do mate, the league is littered with players like Naismith who do a job so to speak, if we hope to achieve anything though we need to move past such players as being anywhere near the first 11, regardless of if he has 2-3 really good games a season vs the likes of Chelsea and United etc whilst stinking out the majority of the games he plays

 

[bluestevon]

Massively underrated player, he's got a so much more skill than he gets credit for, people will often see what they want based on a pre-existing opinion though.

If Barkley ran past 5 players and delivered a poor cross.. Would be viewed as a magnificent run.
If Naismith ran past 5 players and delivered a poor cross.. Would be viewed as a poor cross.

Mate if Naismith manages to hit a team mate with a pass of over 10 yards I'm usually too shocked to react

 

[bicycleheader]

Mate if Naismith manages to hit a team mate with a pass of over 10 yards I'm usually too shocked to react

I would generally agree that he isn´t technically up to the game we want to play, and slows down attacks horribly at times with bad touches and lack of pace or poor passing....but, to be honest that would be me judging him mostly on last season.

We obviously should always be ready to re-evaluate our players and give them credit when it´s due, and a player like Naisy will always be working to improve. So, having said that, I would be interesting if anybody would have his passing accuracy stats for last season and those for the season up to now to compare?

I dunno if it´s just me but I think he has improved, and it would be harsh to keep beating him with the same stick if he is improving

 

[EFC78]

Not saying he is 'poor' mate, but as far as a starter for us if we have ambitions of top 6 then he should just not be anything more than as sub, thrown on to inject energy when we are flat or have tired legs or as a wild-card to try change a flow of a game when needed.

To highlight him he scored 4 in the first 7 last season to get off to a flyer, 3 of those came against very good teams in Arsenal, United and Chelsea, he then proceeded to score 3 in the rest of the season total... Indeed one could point to him going out the starting line up as a massive reason we turned the corner after the low point against stoke - the six games after he was finally dropped from the starting 11 we won 5 and drew 1.

He is all wrong for the system we play, other players game with him 'generally' is dragged down and he stagnates attacks as he just isn't that good in possession for the system we employ.

Yeah their is always exceptions and the Chelsea game is exactly that, an exception to the rule, for every game like that their will be 5-6 others he utterly adds nothing besides a attacking player who runs hard and has a bit of a bite at the opposition.

Do i underrate him, yup i probably do, do others overate him though, most definitely they do mate, the league is littered with players like Naismith who do a job so to speak, if we hope to achieve anything though we need to move past such players as being anywhere near the first 11, regardless of if he has 2-3 really good games a season vs the likes of Chelsea and United etc whilst stinking out the majority of the games he plays

You've made some good points that I do agree with. We all know that he's a limited player but I also think he has an important role to play in the squad. I'm not suggesting he should always be starting games, but there are times when he can be an effective player for us even starting the game.

Every team has a couple of players who are in the team to do a specific job but may not possess the quality that you would associate with a top team. That's the reason why James Milner has made it at the level he has and has been capped for England, has won league titles with Man City, and is now temporarily the Captain of the RS. Milner is one of the most limited players I have ever seen but ask any manager if they'd like him in their squad and 90% of them would say yes.

 

[Haston]

He is all wrong for the system we play, other players game with him 'generally' is dragged down and he stagnates attacks as he just isn't that good in possession for the system we employ.

Yeah their is always exceptions and the Chelsea game is exactly that, an exception to the rule, for every game like that their will be 5-6 others he utterly adds nothing besides a attacking player who runs hard and has a bit of a bite at the opposition.

Do i underrate him, yup i probably do, do others overate him though, most definitely they do mate, the league is littered with players like Naismith who do a job so to speak, if we hope to achieve anything though we need to move past such players as being anywhere near the first 11, regardless of if he has 2-3 really good games a season vs the likes of Chelsea and United etc whilst stinking out the majority of the games he plays

I still don't buy this, I thought he played well on Saturday so I'm not sure where all of the negativity is coming from. He linked up well with Barkley and the rest of the attackers. He wasn't misplacing passes or having poor touches. His pressure on their defence resulted in a turnover in possession on more than one occasion that I can remember off the top of my head. His movement was very intelligent and creates openings for the better technicians in the team. The only criticism I could have of him on Saturday is that he didn't score.

 

[bicycleheader]

I still don't buy this, I thought he played well on Saturday so I'm not sure where all of the negativity is coming from. He linked up well with Barkley and the rest of the attackers. He wasn't misplacing passes or having poor touches. His pressure on their defence resulted in a turnover in possession on more than one occasion that I can remember off the top of my head. His movement was very intelligent and creates openings for the better technicians in the team. The only criticism I could have of him on Saturday is that he didn't score.

This is what I am talking about......you would have to agree the other posters are right to say the Naismith we have seen for most of his time here doesn´t exactly fit the style we seem to want to play, but how he has played so far this season would seem like an improvement (not just the obvious hat-trick).

Bit early to say he suddenly does fit the system, but certainly it would be a great addition to the squad to have him playing like the last two games more regularly. Watch this space!

 

[Carlito]

It wouldn't be long before he was warming the bench at Norwich.

 

[blue4eva77]

Massively underrated player, he's got a so much more skill than he gets credit for, people will often see what they want based on a pre-existing opinion though.

If Barkley ran past 5 players and delivered a poor cross.. Would be viewed as a magnificent run.
If Naismith ran past 5 players and delivered a poor cross.. Would be viewed as a poor cross.

How can you claim that a player has got so much skill, yet can barely find a team mate when making simple passes.

He is woeful. It seems that scoring 3 goals has somehow sent people into a trance.