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Tennis !

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Who ends up with most grand slams isn't automatically crowned the greatest player ever to have lived. Is Margaret Court better than Serena, Steffi or even Martina who has what 5(?) less slams than her. Not a chance.

Djokovic made hay while an aging Federer started to decline and Nadal's style of play was always going to result in a lot of injuries. Djokovic even got lucky in the fact that the two players closest in age and ilk had injury blighted careers (JMDP and Andy Murray).

Now that sounds like I'm not giving ND credit and that would be wrong, he deserves it due to length of period he has dominated and the fact he could have been out of sight by now without covid, but his record didn't stand up well when Federer and Nadal were in their prime and not injured. For that (for me) he isn't the automatic GOAT, he deserves to be in the conversation and that will differ from person to person.
 
The binman chronicles said:
Who ends up with most grand slams isn't automatically crowned the greatest player ever to have lived. Is Margaret Court better than Serena, Steffi or even Martina who has what 5(?) less slams than her. Not a chance.

Djokovic made hay while an aging Federer started to decline and Nadal's style of play was always going to result in a lot of injuries. Djokovic even got lucky in the fact that the two players closest in age and ilk had injury blighted careers (JMDP and Andy Murray).

Now that sounds like I'm not giving ND credit and that would be wrong, he deserves it due to length of period he has dominated and the fact he could have been out of sight by now without covid, but his record didn't stand up well when Federer and Nadal were in their prime and not injured. For that (for me) he isn't the automatic GOAT, he deserves to be in the conversation and that will differ from person to person.
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The Court argument doesn’t really hold due to the different eras. Nobody thinks she was better, but had she won those 24 as a peer of the others it might be different. Steffi, Martina and Chrissie are held up as alternates to Serena though most believe Serena is the Goat (there are holdouts for both Steffi and Martina though who, it should be noted , did what they did while sharing the court against other Goat candidates while Serena did not - of course that probably is just testament to Serena’s dominance)

As to Novak…I mean it’s gonna be hard to argue against him

Most Grand Slams (shared w Nadal for now, but he will end up w more)
Most grand slam finals
Most Masters titles
Most ATP finals titles (shared w Federer for now but he may end up w more)
Most Weeks at number 1
Most year end number 1
won all 4 grand slams in a row
winning record against Federer
winning record against Nadal

Yes some of that came after Fed/Nadals prime, but likewise some of what Fed did came before Novaks and RAda’s prime

I‘ve said for a long time that Federer is the most beautiful player I’ve ever seen and Nadal is the most powerful. You can’t dream of teaching anyone to be like either. Novak to me is the textbook perfect tennis player. He is a complete a player as there has been. It may not be as breathtaking as Federer or awe inspiring as Nadal, but it is flawless nonetheless.

We can, and will, argue about who was the best, but on paper Novak will have the most solid case.
 
The binman chronicles said:
Who ends up with most grand slams isn't automatically crowned the greatest player ever to have lived. Is Margaret Court better than Serena, Steffi or even Martina who has what 5(?) less slams than her. Not a chance.

Djokovic made hay while an aging Federer started to decline and Nadal's style of play was always going to result in a lot of injuries. Djokovic even got lucky in the fact that the two players closest in age and ilk had injury blighted careers (JMDP and Andy Murray).

Now that sounds like I'm not giving ND credit and that would be wrong, he deserves it due to length of period he has dominated and the fact he could have been out of sight by now without covid, but his record didn't stand up well when Federer and Nadal were in their prime and not injured. For that (for me) he isn't the automatic GOAT, he deserves to be in the conversation and that will differ from person to person.
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Really? From 2011 onwards (when Federer was 5 years younger than Novak is now), he beat him 22-10, including 3 times in Wimbledon finals and 12-2 overall in Slams/ATP Finals.

Fine if you want to say Federer was in decline from 2011 onwards, (although he did win 4 grand slams after 2011), but Djokovic has tougher opposition now IMO than Federer faced in his earlier career, when he racked up a load of slams.
 

Kev The Rat said:
Really? From 2011 onwards (when Federer was 5 years younger than Novak is now), he beat him 22-10, including 3 times in Wimbledon finals and 12-2 overall in Slams/ATP Finals.

Fine if you want to say Federer was in decline from 2011 onwards, (although he did win 4 grand slams after 2011), but Djokovic has tougher opposition now IMO than Federer faced in his earlier career, when he racked up a load of slams.
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Federer was on the slide by then and Nadal's body had started to fail. The only reason they both won more slams is when Djokovic started having problems (perhaps excluding the FO for Nadal).
All three would have won less and been pensioned off had the next generation managed to have produced a world class player or two.

As I said ND has done very well but he has done most of his damage after the other two did theirs. You don't become a better player in your 30's so Djokovic is a testament to keeping his body intact at an older age that has allowed him to compete against this generation of players that the other two could not.
 
Djokovic was behind both Federer and Nadal, but he went away and worked hard on his game to take him up a level which none of the others could deal with (most of the time). That for me is why he’s the goat, although the tennis era we have just seen will probably never be replicated in terms of talent.

It’s actually offensive to Nadal, Federer and Djokovic, that Murray even gets mentioned in the same breath as them. They were so far ahead of everyone else it was frightening.
 
ArtetaMoney said:
It’s actually offensive to Nadal, Federer and Djokovic, that Murray even gets mentioned in the same breath as them. They were so far ahead of everyone else it was frightening.
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He gets mentioned in same breath as them as he's the only other guy to win major tournaments during their era, no one actually thinks he's on the same level as them although on his day he could match them.
 

longers said:
He gets mentioned in same breath as them as he's the only other guy to win major tournaments during their era, no one actually thinks he's on the same level as them although on his day he could match them.
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Wawrinka snagged a trio also. Aus, French, US. Never seemed the same player after that US win though. 139 in the world currently.
 

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