The 2015 Popularity Contest (aka UK General Election )

[davek]

That whole England flag home thing is EXACTLY why labour has lost the working class vote. Gordon Brown calling that arl woman a bigot aswell and that racist Diane Abbott they are a middle class PC brigade bunch of melts. They are pro EU, Pro unrestricted immigration, anti patriotism and just as much in the bankers pockets as the Tories.

Like has been said the Labour party are finished. They will stay "relevant" for aslong as the left wing of the guardian need a party nearest to their ideals to cling onto. Sort of like a euro skeptic with the Tories if UKIP didn't exist

She was, tbf.

The thing about Labour is that they haven't taken the gloves off with these people. It's time to call a spade a shovel: anyone whinging that they'll vote UKIP should be told 'Good luck, on you go, we're not pandering to you. We're not turning ourselves inside out to accommodate you and your racist leanings'.

They wont do that though, because Labour dont know what they are anymore. It's almost sad. They're dead in the water. A party without a class base will always die. The Tories wont, They represent a class and always will.

 

[Mrtallywacker]

She was, tbf.

The thing about Labour is that they haven't taken the gloves off with these people. It's time to call a spade a shovel: anyone whinging that they'll vote UKIP should be told 'Good luck, on you go, we're not pandering to you. We're not turning ourselves inside out to accommodate you and your racist leanings'.

They wont do that though, because Labour dont know what they are anymore. It's almost sad. They're dead in the water. A party without a class base will always die. The Tories wont, They represent a class and always will.

bigot
ˈbɪɡət/
noun

1. a person who is intolerant towards those holding different opinions.
   
   
   
   
   
   
   

 

[rascal]

Dennis Skinner absolutely ripped UKIP to shreds there. He's a proper politician, someone who knows what a loaf and a pint of milk costs. These career politicians don't stand a chance.

 

[Walken]

She was, tbf.

The thing about Labour is that they haven't taken the gloves off with these people. It's time to call a spade a shovel: anyone whinging that they'll vote UKIP should be told 'Good luck, on you go, we're not pandering to you. We're not turning ourselves inside out to accommodate you and your racist leanings'.

They wont do that though, because Labour dont know what they are anymore. It's almost sad. They're dead in the water. A party without a class base will always die. The Tories wont, They represent a class and always will.

absolutely spot on, if people are so unbelievably stupid to think that utter non-issues like immigration, and the small minded concept of patriotism are important to them, then I welcome the asteroid now if these blerts become anything approaching a majority

 

[Milk]

absolutely spot on, if people are so unbelievably stupid to think that utter non-issues like immigration, and the small minded concept of patriotism are important to them, then I welcome the asteroid now if these blerts become anything approaching a majority

I wouldn't say that immigration is an "Utter non-issue".
Whilst the vast majority are here to work & work hard and should be welcomed because we have a raft of people who are simply unemployable, it is inevitable that there is a percentage (perceived to be high because it is whipped up by the papers) who are here to sponge off the benefit system and the NHS. The so called Scroungers and Health Tourists.
It is also true that the vast majority of beggars are now foreign and that the foreign criminal class (esp East European) have used the "open door" policy to export sex workers, extortion and drug racketing too.

No wonder UK nationals say "Enough".

 

[Walken]

I wouldn't say that immigration is an "Utter non-issue".
Whilst the vast majority are here to work & work hard and should be welcomed because we have a raft of people who are simply unemployable, it is inevitable that there is a percentage (perceived to be high because it is whipped up by the papers) who are here to sponge off the benefit system and the NHS. The so called Scroungers and Health Tourists.
It is also true that the vast majority of beggars are now foreign and that the foreign criminal class (esp East European) have used the "open door" policy to export sex workers, extortion and drug racketing too.

No wonder UK nationals say "Enough".

Nationalists are perpetually angry,one of the reasons they are so distasteful and easy to blind

 

[The Esk]

Nationalists are perpetually angry,one of the reasons they are so distasteful and easy to blind

I always feel it is a great shame that we allow nationalism to be hijacked by the right and most frequently the extreme right.

Nationality is a very important part of one's own identity as an individual, so why collectively should the identification and promotion of a particular nation and nationality be such a bad thing?

In the case of being British, it carries huge weight and significance overseas. In most areas of the world when considering commercial and professional affairs it is a considerable advantage to be British.

The unanswered question in domestic politics is why it is unfashionable to recognise the value of our nationality particularly amongst the left.

I have asked this question at many Labour party meetings over the years and never had a satisfactory answer.

One could argue that had the Left used nationality and promoted "benign" nationalism there would have been no room in the political spectrum for someone like Farage to step into.

Farage is an opportunist, he spotted a policy vacuum that would have simplistic appeal. The main political parties have been caught sleeping at the tiller.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I wouldn't say that immigration is an "Utter non-issue".
Whilst the vast majority are here to work & work hard and should be welcomed because we have a raft of people who are simply unemployable, it is inevitable that there is a percentage (perceived to be high because it is whipped up by the papers) who are here to sponge off the benefit system and the NHS. The so called Scroungers and Health Tourists.
It is also true that the vast majority of beggars are now foreign and that the foreign criminal class (esp East European) have used the "open door" policy to export sex workers, extortion and drug racketing too.

No wonder UK nationals say "Enough".

A nice example here of what happens when you get the government attempting to 'manage' things.

http://www.economist.com/news/brita...d-cameron-reputation-management-how-not-treat

Worth pointing out that a big tranche of the lets leave the EU thing was that we have a Commonwealth that we should be trading more with.

 

[Milk]

Nationalists are perpetually angry,one of the reasons they are so distasteful and easy to blind

Although I said "Nationals" - ie people who are British by birth or who have taken the oath and is quite different to "Nationalists", I will run with the latter.
It is a very fine line between being a Patriot (perhaps like the guy in Rochester with his flags outside his house??) and being a Nationalist (or "Little Englander") and I think the majority who actually give it some thought, believe that unchecked immigration is now harming the wellbeing of the country as a whole because, rightly or wrongly, the bulk of immigrants are seeking to come here rather than elsewhere in Europe. Why? Are we seen as a soft touch? Perhaps Nationalists are angry because they feel that politicians have disenfranchised them and that they, the politicians, are a bunch of mealy mouthed, touchy feely, namby pamby bunch of career politicos who don't know what it means to have dirt under the fingernails?

 

[Walken]

Although I said "Nationals" - ie people who are British by birth or who have taken the oath and is quite different to "Nationalists", I will run with the latter.
It is a very fine line between being a Patriot (perhaps like the guy in Rochester with his flags outside his house??) and being a Nationalist (or "Little Englander") and I think the majority who actually give it some thought, believe that unchecked immigration is now harming the wellbeing of the country as a whole because, rightly or wrongly, the bulk of immigrants are seeking to come here rather than elsewhere in Europe. Why? Are we seen as a soft touch? Perhaps Nationalists are angry because they feel that politicians have disenfranchised them and that they, the politicians, are a bunch of mealy mouthed, touchy feely, namby pamby bunch of career politicos who don't know what it means to have dirt under the fingernails?

and so they side with a cynical opportunist, who cares far less about his own political views than they do, I don't care for patriotism or nationalism in all honesty, and I see them as dangerous forces which influence irrational thinking, in the same way as religion does, as technology grows and the world becomes smaller, both nationalism and religion have become less popular in general on the @the esk 's point, as people hopefully become more enlightened and these things become less important in their lives. I don't despise all patriot's, and do get involved with that on a sporting level, just as religion has it's good point, but when these things become an ethos that become the main factor in someone's thinking it's a dangerous thing, and I certainly don't see immigration as a huge evil danger, and in no way should it be the issue that a general election is fought on

 

[EverBlue86]

People think immigration and nationalism arnt important but you only have to see the amount of terror threats and people flying off to fight in Syria to realise it's more important now than ever.

My partners a teacher and she has been told to teach more about British and local history in school, her school has had "discreet" days on britishness including wearing red, white and blue directed by the powers that be.

These things are just as important in today's seemingly globalised world than ever before. For aslong as humans are animals and life in family's and communities then nationalism will exist and providing it's no a nationalism of hatred of others and that's where so many people confuse nationalism with outright racism, then it's not a bad thing imo if anything it can bring people together

 

[roydo]

it can bring people together

Like the Olympics. They were ace.

 

[Blue 1]

http://www.newstatesman.com/politic...house-not-act-class-warfare-whatever-sun-says

 

[davek]

I always feel it is a great shame that we allow nationalism to be hijacked by the right and most frequently the extreme right.

The unanswered question in domestic politics is why it is unfashionable to recognise the value of our nationality particularly amongst the left.

I have asked this question at many Labour party meetings over the years and never had a satisfactory answer.

One could argue that had the Left used nationality and promoted "benign" nationalism there would have been no room in the political spectrum for someone like Farage to step into.

Farage is an opportunist, he spotted a policy vacuum that would have simplistic appeal. The main political parties have been caught sleeping at the tiller.

"Cool Britannia"? New Labour were hawking around the cloak of 'benign' nationalism when Nigel Farage was still trying to come up with the name UKIP.

Embracing nationalism isn't a solution to anything. Flying flags of St George and talking up English identity is done to extend a big finger in the direction of the Muslim community and to immigrants in general. The whole political class are running scared from that mentality, and we'll find ourselves looking over the edge of the cliff in this country if that backwardness isn't met head on and reversed.

 

[The Esk]

"Cool Britannia"? New Labour were hawking around the cloak of 'benign' nationalism when Nigel Farage was still trying to come up with the name UKIP.

Embracing nationalism isn't a solution to anything. Flying flags of St George and talking up English identity is done to extend a big finger in the direction of the Muslim community and to immigrants in general. The whole political class are running scared from that mentality, and we'll find ourselves looking over the edge of the cliff in this country if that backwardness isn't met head on and reversed.

With respect I am not talking about some shallow media branding exercise which was trendy amongst the Islington elite for a little while.

I'm talking about a nation that once exported its nationalism across the world for 100's of years from Elizabethian through to Georgian times. That's how strongly we valued "Britishness" so much so we imposed it upon more than a third of the world. Today we value it so little that we are not even prepared to promote it to our own younger generations nor expect immigrants to this country to embrace almost any aspect of it.

I am a Labour party member as you know, have been for 30 plus years. Why did the left allow nationalism to become the domain of the right firstly with the conservatives and now with a chancer like Farage and his ilk.

We (the Labour Party) created a policy vacuum around national identity collectively and individually particularly among the working class. Farage has barged straight through and is capturing that ground in spades.